Keeping hifi on

[Marco]

Ciggies and Guinness - boak!

In fact I'll go further and argue that speakers should need a warm up more than anything else, especially if they have been sat unused in a cold room.

Rooms should never be left cold (to prevent dampness, aside from anything else), especially when any serious listening is done, as the sound will be shit, and with thermostatically controlled central heating these days, there's no reason for any part of your home to be cold or damp.

Realistically, however, what you've said will be where most of the improvement heard is coming from, as undoubtedly speakers need to 'warm up' more than electronics.

A couple of interesting experiences I've had at Scalford, when demonstrating AoS systems (largely made up of my own equipment and speakers, which I knew inside out), which throw some doubt on that view though, were when we had (painstakingly) set up the system the night before and left it all switched on [yes even the valve amps], so that the sound would be at its best, for punters coming in at 10 am...

And when playing the same music I'd been doing the night before, with no other variables changed - and the speakers unused for about 7 hours, and cold - the sound was markedly better (smoother and more 'fleshed out'), also the system seemed to be performing more effortlessly, which I can assure you wasn't imagined. It also got progressively better once the speakers had been playing music for an hour or so, and thus had also been 'warmed up'.

I've also noticed at these shows, and I doubt it's simply coincidence, that the systems demonstrated always sound better towards the end of the day, a view also shared by the exhibitors themselves, who've been listening to them throughout day, often using the same selection of music, and experienced the same change...

As ever in audio, it's easy to simply dismiss that which can't easily be proved as 'imagined', especially if it doesn't conform to one's scientific belief system or how we think 'things should work', but that's often at the expense of seeing the bigger picture and considering that such experiences could be real - and learning from them. Then using that information to our benefit in future.

That's certainly how I go about things (how my head works), and over the years, I believe have gained significantly from it

Marco.

[Macca]

Ciggies and Guinness - boak!




A couple of interesting experiences I've had at Scalford, when demonstrating AoS systems (largely made up of my own equipment and speakers, which I knew inside out), which throw some doubt on that view though, were when we had (painstakingly) set up the system the night before and left it all switched on [yes even the valve amps], so that the sound would be at its best for punters coming in at 10 am...

And when playing the same music I'd been doing the night before, with no other variables changed - and the speakers unused for about 7 hours, and cold - the sound was markedly better (smoother and more 'fleshed out'), also also the system seemed to be performing more effortlessly, which I can assure you wasn't imagined. It also got progressively even better once the speakers had been playing music for an hour or so, and thus had also been 'warmed up'.

I've also noticed at these shows, and I doubt it's simply coincidence, that the systems demonstrated always sound better towards the end of the day, a view also shared by the exhibitors themselves who've been listening to them all day, often using the same selection of music...

As ever in audio, it's easy to simply dismiss that which can't easily be proved as 'imagined', especially if it doesn't conform to one's scientific belief system or how we think 'things should work', but that's often at the expense of seeing the bigger picture and considering that such experiences could be real - and learning from them. Then using that information to our benefit in future.

.

Sure, I agree with your final paragraph. However I would argue that one of the biggest, possibly the biggest problem in audio is not what people hear, but the reason they ascribe to it. In the Scalford situation you describe, leaving aside that it is the next day and your physical and psychological condition is going to be different, you also have to ask if it was the same music being played, was it being played at exactly the same volume, were you listening from the same place in the room, and so on?

Perhaps it was warm-up that was improving the sound. But perhaps it was one of a number of other variables. I'm not one for asking for definitive proof, but I don't like to jump to conclusions either. My own experience has been that there is zero benefit, but of course this is also subject to the same caveats.

I'd suggest there are far more important and relevant issues in audio today that should be addressed first before we worry about sub-optimal performance due to lack of warm up.

[walpurgis]

To all those people who leave their systems powered - do you also leave your car engines running all night when you're not using them? After all, we all know a car drives better when its warmed up.

[James the Albarry lover]

Yes I agree, you need to be in the right mood for it or you just won't enjoy it. I think alot of non hifi people are like this, they just aren't in the right mind set to get that enjoyment out of hifi I feel really sorry for those people

[Marco]

However I would argue that one of the biggest, possibly the biggest problem in audio is not what people hear, but the reason they ascribe to it. In the Scalford situation you describe, leaving aside that it is the next day and your physical and psychological condition is going to be different, you also have to ask if it was the same music being played, was it being played at exactly the same volume, were you listening from the same place in the room, and so on?

Yeah I get that, and agree. However, I also think that dismissing everything that can't be neatly proven by our current learning, as 'imagined', is equally as big a problem, so the key is always to keep an open mind, and examine the less obvious as well as the obvious.

To answer your questions in order, having been up until late the night before, setting up the system and not getting that much sleep (I never sleep as well in hotel bedrooms, as I do at home), and feeling quite tired as a result, and as I'm not a morning person anyway, then if anything, my physical and psychological condition would've been worse than it was the night before. So in that respect, there was no reason for the system to have sounded better .

Yes, the music was played at the same volume, because I simply hit the play button on the CD I had last been listening to before going to bed, without touching the volume control, and yes, I was sat in the same seat (prime position in the middle of the speakers, two rows back), as I had been the night before.

None of that, of course, necessarily proves anything, but it does suggest the possibility of the improvement being real, and that's certainly what I believe, given that most of the variables remained the same from the night before. It also shows that, as the speakers were stone cold, having not been used for 7 hours, that the improvement heard was not as a result of anything to do with speaker 'warm up'.

I'd suggest there are far more important and relevant issues in audio today that should be addressed first before we worry about sub-optimal performance due to lack of warm up.

Indeed, although if what I'm suggesting works, it's a rather easy thing to do, in order to experience the benefit. And anything that genuinely increases one's listening pleasure, no matter how small, has got to be worthwhile

Marco.

[Marco]

To all those people who leave their systems powered - do you also leave your car engines running all night when you're not using them? After all, we all know a car drives better when its warmed up.

In the same way as women 'perform' better after similarly being 'warmed up'?

Marco.

[struth]

a good woman starts first turn

[Macca]

Might start first turn but then you find the clutch sticks a bit in third gear.

[struth]

Might start first turn but then you find the clutch sticks a bit in third gear.

keep well oiled and you'll be hunky dory

[Marco]

Lol - I could say plenty, but I'm shy, and it's a family forum!

Marco.