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Thread: Going Back in Time

  1. #221
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    I am currently in the best place sonically I have ever been and I have no requirement to chase after some fantasy sound in the way a religious idiot chases a fantasy figure. I am at peace with my current system and do not see any kind of change coming any time soon. Yes, I shall have to renew quite a lot of valves and that will have to be done carefully and yes, there will have to be a cartridge change at some point but even having heard so much gear in almost forty years of listening, I am totally satisfied with my current sound system. I have compared my present system to those of friends who use a whole range of turntables and I always prefer my own. This is a good place to be. My only dilemma...? Buy CD's at a tenner or vinyl at twenty odd quid...?
    Not quite sure what or who you're referring to there, Shaun (the bit in bold). Hopefully it's no-one here, as no-one I know of falls into that category.

    I fully understand and appreciate where you're coming from, but that shouldn't negate your desire always to learn and discover new things. So what if someone was to pop up to your place with, say, a heavily modded SL-1210, or perhaps Paul's Sony, and to your ears it beat your NA?

    Just say that happened, for the sake of the discussion, what would be your opinion then on direct-drive T/Ts?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #222
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    The point of this 'game' is to find contentment and fulfillment from our systems, of whatever flavour. We each have a certain sound we are looking for - and if you have found it then I'm very happy for you. There is no absolute perfect holy grail in this game.
    Absolutely, Adrian, but some folk seem to want to put their fingers in their ears and go 'na-na-na', 'I know everything there is to know now, and my rigidly-formed conclusions are indisputable', so I don't want to put myself into a position where they could risk being called into question....

    Sorry, but I don't get that at all, as I dislike comfort zones. It doesn't matter HOW long you've been in this game for, there's always room for learning!

    In that respect, ALL of us are on a continual learning curve, and thus we should accept that fact and VALUE being exposed to new listening experiences, where we might discover something new that's worthwhile knowing

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #223
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: St Leonard's on Sea

    Posts: 1,136
    I'm Loz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermit View Post
    Thanks Loz. I took the decision a couple of months ago to sell off most of my horde in order to help fund the Kiseki and, if all goes to plan, another forthcoming purchase. All I'm keeping is the tt, amp, dac and one or two tuners. The Yamaha amps were part of the cull. A nice chap from pink fish came up to Glasgow to collect them.

    Damn, not the answer I was secretly hoping for.
    I was quite smitten with the look of the Yams and by yours and other accounts they sound rather nice too. Nice chap from Glasgows gain. Well I'll look on with interest to see how your set up develops. Good luck with it.

    Cheers

    Loz

  4. #224
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 1,049
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I don't doubt it does, Paul! And that was essentially my point....

    I'd expect your Sony, thus or similarly partnered, to have spanked the pants of any of the 'revered' belt-drives, back in the day (LP12s, etc), yet because of the bias that existed back then, T/Ts like yours simply weren't seen at your average dealer, and would've likely been laughed at as being any good, if even suggested!

    Never mind, we know better now these days, thanks largely to forums such as this, so enjoy

    Marco.
    I got your point Marco but I was attempting to set out why I wasn't agreeing wholeheartedly. I think the Sony is sensational but I am very circumspect when talking about my equipment due to an overall lack of experience in the hobby compared to many here. Anyway, I hope you get the chance to pop in and hear it for yourself on one of your trips north.

    This lack of experience in general and of belt drive decks in particular means I can't really make statements in reference to the Sony like yours above in bold or, indeed, claim like Shaun that I have an informed preference for one drive type over the other based on years of listening. That said, the feedback I have had on my deck from more experienced audiophile visitors suggests that it is a very decent performer by any yardstick.

    FWIW, my friend has a very decent high mass belt drive deck with a top OL arm and an Ortofon cartridge from their exclusive range. To me it sounds absolutely superb and I have no doubt I could live with it long term from a SQ point of view. If the Sony were to fail, I expect I would look out for an EMT DD or an SP10 but I wouldn't rule out a high mass belt drive deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    So what if someone was to pop up to your place with, say, a heavily modded SL-1210, or perhaps Paul's Sony, and to your ears it beat your NA?
    Much as I would enjoy touring the provinces converting the sceptical to direct drive, as the Sony weighs about 22kg, and I have the upper body strength of a crisp, it won't be going anywhere

    Quote Originally Posted by HackneyRF View Post
    Damn, not the answer I was secretly hoping for.
    I was quite smitten with the look of the Yams and by yours and other accounts they sound rather nice too. Nice chap from Glasgows gain. Well I'll look on with interest to see how your set up develops. Good luck with it.

    Cheers

    Loz
    Thanks Loz. I'm sorry that you didn't make your interest known about the Yamahas. As it happens I have a friend who posts here who has the same pair and he mentioned recently that he was thinking of moving them on. Next time we speak I'll let him know that you may be interested.

  5. #225
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: St Leonard's on Sea

    Posts: 1,136
    I'm Loz.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hermit View Post
    As it happens I have a friend who posts here who has the same pair and he mentioned recently that he was thinking of moving them on. Next time we speak I'll let him know that you may be interested.
    Yes, please do.

  6. #226
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hermit View Post
    I got your point Marco but I was attempting to set out why I wasn't agreeing wholeheartedly. I think the Sony is sensational but I am very circumspect when talking about my equipment due to an overall lack of experience in the hobby compared to many here. Anyway, I hope you get the chance to pop in and hear it for yourself on one of your trips north.
    Totally get that, Paul, and I will defo pop by for a listen next time I'm up in Glasgow.

    My main point really was that high-quality, very capable and well engineered T/Ts. like yours, were almost completely ignored by the UK hi-fi press and dealers, back in the day (mainly due to their obsession with the LP12), and it was a major bugbear of mine, as it meant that we missed out on *so* much quality kit from Japan, which found its way onto other shores, such as Germany and Italy, because in those countries there didn't exist the same bias.

    This lack of experience in general and of belt drive decks in particular means I can't really make statements in reference to the Sony like yours above in bold or, indeed, claim like Shaun that I have an informed preference for one drive type over the other based on years of listening. That said, the feedback I have had on my deck from more experienced audiophile visitors suggests that it is a very decent performer by any yardstick.
    I appreciate that, mate.

    The difference is, I've used 'high-end' T/Ts since 1982, and have owned many different ones in that time, but crucially also in the last 10 years, have attended numerous bake-offs, including large shows such as Scalford, where I've demonstrated my T/T to 100s of people, and also taken it folk who own some very serious turntables, some costing five figures(!) so I *know* exactly what it's capable of and how it compares against numerous other T/Ts, idlers, belt-drives or direct-drives, which means I can comment with some authority, not only on how good it is against such competition, but also how good all the other turntables I've heard to date are, in general, against a known and constant point of reference.

    Not many folk I know have done that, and pitched their kit up against the best, in all different sorts of contexts/environments (most only have their own system/kit and that belonging to a few friends, acting as their benchmark), so in this particular area I have LOTS of experience, and so really do know what I'm talking about

    FWIW, my friend has a very decent high mass belt drive deck with a top OL arm and an Ortofon cartridge from their exclusive range. To me it sounds absolutely superb and I have no doubt I could live with it long term from a SQ point of view. If the Sony were to fail, I expect I would look out for an EMT DD or an SP10 but I wouldn't rule out a high mass belt drive deck.
    There's nothing wrong with belt-drive turntables; I've also heard some superb ones, especially those who've given my own T/T a run for its money (or bettered it), and of course no turntable or drive system is perfect (they all have their compromises), but there still exists the perception, especially here in the UK (old habits die hard and all that) that any 'serious' turntable is a belt-drive, and that D/Ds and idlers aren't in the same league, which I'm afraid is patent nonsense!

    That's why, on AoS, we go out of our way to champion the best D/Ds and idlers (to educate and inform our members), such as the Technics SL-1200/1210 (when suitably modded), and SP10, your Sony (and other Sonys of a similar calibre), the Pioneer PL-71, Denons, Toshibas and JVCs, etc, and with idlers, the various Garrards, Lencos, Goldrings, and Thorens TD124, because in many instances they completely outperform (or have the potential to do so) to many overpriced, currently produced belt-drive T/Ts, purported as being 'high-end', and where they'll ultimately deliver higher 'SPPV'.

    As you know (or should know), the 'SPPV principle' is a fundamental and core part of the AoS ethos, as indeed is me flying the flag for some of T/T's 'unsung heroes', in order to help eradicate the belt-drive bias that still exists, and dilute the perception that only 'proper turntables' are driven by a rubber band...

    Anyway, I trust you can appreciate where I'm coming from. If you do decide to go for an EMT (D/D) or SP10, do make sure that you get it properly serviced by someone qualified to do so, as the majority of these, undeniably superb, but *very old* (electronically complicated) designs, will need looked at by a professional, in order to perform at anywhere near 100% of the original capability.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #227
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 1,049
    I'm Paul.

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    Thanks for taking the time to elaborate Marco. That's all crystal clear now.

    FWIW, with regard to the AOS ethos and SPPV, I think this thread illustrates that my equipment choices over the years have not been exactly mainstream yet it has been a hugely enjoyable and largely successful progression. I have derived the confidence to make these choices largely as a result of the collective wisdom to be found on AOS and to a lesser extent the Classic room at PFM so make no mistake your efforts here do not go unappreciated.

  8. #228
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    No problem, Paul, and cheers! Your system is indeed one of the text-book examples, contained in our Gallery section, of the whole 'SPPV principle', and how applying some lateral thinking (by embracing the use of quality vintage kit) can pay significant dividends.

    Keep up the good work, mate!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #229
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 1,049
    I'm Paul.

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    Thanks to a very kind AoS member, I've been lucky enough to acquire a pair of Lockwood Majors with MG15s. They have their original crossovers which have just been recapped by Paul Coupe. Bigly fugly but sounding lovely.

    Last edited by hermit; 03-06-2017 at 15:58.

  10. #230
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

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    Chunky!
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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