Denon 103r - is it worth the aggro?

[Marco]

Yup, if you can't find an SA, what you want is a GL: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-DL-10...-/302019909747

Preferably a NOS one, but I've had experience with several of these Japanese sellers, and what they sell invariably fits the description, plus they're generally always good to deal with, so I wouldn't baulk at importing a used one from someone such as the above, or from the likes of 2juki or foxtan - all ebay 'stalwarts' with vintage gear.

Or, this lovely NOS C1, which whilst not as good as an SA or GL, will certainly outperform any currently produced DL-103, 'R' or otherwise:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DENON-DL-...AAAOSwz-5ZiZuD



Marco.

[worrasf]

I have had a 103, 103R and a custom built 103 by Dom at NWA which was by far the best in terms of musicality and enjoyment of the 3.

I’m currently using a Denon DL-S1 with a Denon AU-S1 SUT and this combo is the best I have ever heard. The DL-S1 is mounted on an Isokinetik silver melody headshell and Jelco 750 arm - it sounded very good when I was using a Denon AU-320 SUT but the synergy with the AU-S1 is truly amazing. I use a Mint Tractor to setup the DL-S1 and I track at the max recommended VTF of 1.5g and virtually no anti skate. Took hours to get it right but it rewards patience.
So to echo Marco the setup and partner kit is crucial with these Denons.
FWIW I couldn’t get on with the Zyx R100H - way to warm and “bloomy” for my taste.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigman80]

I have had a 103, 103R and a custom built 103 by Dom at NWA which was by far the best in terms of musicality and enjoyment of the 3.

I’m currently using a Denon DL-S1 with a Denon AU-S1 SUT and this combo is the best I have ever heard. The DL-S1 is mounted on an Isokinetik silver melody headshell and Jelco 750 arm - it sounded very good when I was using a Denon AU-320 SUT but the synergy with the AU-S1 is truly amazing. I use a Mint Tractor to setup the DL-S1 and I track at the max recommended VTF of 1.5g and virtually no anti skate. Took hours to get it right but it rewards patience.
So to echo Marco the setup and partner kit is crucial with these Denons.
FWIW I couldn’t get on with the Zyx R100H - way to warm and “bloomy” for my taste.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, way over budget 😂😂

Still, I'd really like to hear that combination!

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Marco]

The other one to consider, Oliver, is the DL-103Pro, expertly and sympathetically 'tuned' by Highphonic (all ex-Denon employees):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGHPHONI....c100005.m1851

These sound FAB (comparable with some NOS varieties), with an extended high-frequency response, up to 55 kHz [lighter tracking also], and way better than any currently produced stock item. Under your budget, too

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Stephen,

I’m currently using a Denon DL-S1 with a Denon AU-S1 SUT and this combo is the best I have ever heard.

Interesting that you consider the DL-S1 better than Dom's custom-built jobbie... Any views on that, and specifically in which areas you feel that the 'S1' trumps it? I've always highly rated the AU-S1 SUT, but so far have neglected to obtain one. Might be a Christmas pressie for me this year!

It would be interesting comparing an AU-S1, with an HA-500, using an 'S1' cartridge as the reference point....

I use a Mint Tractor to setup the DL-S1 and I track at the max recommended VTF of 1.5g and virtually no anti skate. Took hours to get it right but it rewards patience.

Watch the virtually no anti-skate bit, as through time you may notice that the cantilever has been 'pulled' to one side and become a little bent. This doesn't usually affect the sound (unless really bad), but it's annoying. Have you checked for that recently?

Best way is to remove the headshell and look at the cartridge, face-on from the underneath, and see whether it's leaning a little to one side. However, I fully agree with the 1.5g (max) VTF, as that's where it sounds best.

Too many people make the mistake of trying to track cartridges with minimum VTF, under the misapprehension of decreasing record wear, when they should be starting at the top end of the manufacturer's recommended range, and working down to what sounds best, which is why DL-103s sound best tracking at 2.65g, with 2.5g anti-skate.

The fact is, NOTHING (apart from a very worn stylus) is worse for inducing record wear than a stylus not sitting snugly inside the grooves and skipping about the place, no matter how little, which can happen with too light a downforce.

Also, a conical stylus has a bit fat tip, so even when tracking at 2.5g and above, as long as it's in good condition, will potentially cause less record wear than a fine-line stylus (which digs deeper into grooves) tracking at 1.5g!

So to echo Marco the setup and partner kit is crucial with these Denons.

It honestly is. It's such a shame though that Denon decided to discontinue the DL-S1, as it's a VERY special cartridge, capable of competing with and sometimes outperforming the best at almost any price - and to think it originally sold for a measly £500!! Bonkers

But that's Denon for you, and the 'economies of scale' factor....

Marco.

[Bigman80]

It's definitely on my radar but with the peripheral gear needed i dont think its going to be the right time to dive in. I haven't got a Valve MM stage or a headamp etc. I am going to keep my eye on things and your input has been invaluable, Marco.

The Vienna is going to be my first choice having heard it in my system and knowing the history of it. Also the seller is a really good guy. Very trust worthy.

[CageyH]

There was a 103Pro for sale on here a while ago.
I have a 103 C1 (which Marco sold me) but I have to say that I much prefer my Techne-Audio modified 103.
It is superb. My AT33PTG/II did not get much of a look in for quite a while.
It gives you the 103 “soul” but with more detail.

[worrasf]

Hi Marco
The NWA 103 was very detailed with a lovely mid range and tracked great - musical presentation was “effortless” but for all that it lacked a certain “presence” and sounded a little “thin and recessed” - no matter how I played with the setup and SUT’s (didn’t have the AU-S1 then) I couldn’t “flesh it out” to the sound I was after. The S1 changed all that. It does everything the NWA did but sounds so much bigger and more lifelike. There’s no doubt the AU-S1 brings out the best in it particularly with better/faster bass and detail yet it still has the sort of presentation you could listen to for extended periods without fatigue.
Regarding antiskate I’m following the Soundsmith approach and setting so the stylus ever so slowly drifts inwards when “playing” grooveless vinyl. With all other carts I’ve used this usually translated to anti skate between 1.5 & 2.5 but with the S1 it’s about 0.5. It tracks the HFN disc with ease. No issues with the cantilever.
The SUT is stunning - built like a battleship. There are regularly a few on eBay (I got mine from Samurai electronics in Japan - reasonable price but the import duty stings
Steve



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigman80]

There was a 103Pro for sale on here a while ago.
I have a 103 C1 (which Marco sold me) but I have to say that I much prefer my Techne-Audio modified 103.
It is superb. My AT33PTG/II did not get much of a look in for quite a while.
It gives you the 103 “soul” but with more detail.

I might get hold of Alan's if I can and give it a whirl. Who knows lol

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Marco]

There was a 103Pro for sale on here a while ago.
I have a 103 C1 (which Marco sold me) but I have to say that I much prefer my Techne-Audio modified 103.

Yes, and that's fine, but look at the arm you use... It's a great arm, but not ideally suited to getting the best from a low-compliance cartridge

Fit your C1 onto the likes of an FR-64, and try the same test again... But trouble is, that might not suit your T/T, or indeed your sonic proclivities. Vinyl replay: it's a synergy thing...

Marco.

P.S Stephen, I'll come back to you later.