Gromit's music centre...

[pure sound]

The bass is the clue Richard. The TT drive system is up to the job. The shortcomings are likely to be elsewhere ie mat/arm/cartridge etc

[DSJR]

I love the Spacemat and deeply respect the Ringmat but NEVER thought to use them together.....

So the Technics thus equipped really is almost a match for a NAS turntable...? Bloomin' 'ell!

[Gromit]

Guy - if this is what the OEM arm is capable of, as it came out of the box, then I'll be quite stunned at what a better one is able to do.

I've just put the Teccy back in place and set up the Lyra very carefully (the arm's vtf markings are spot-on with my digital stylus gauge which is comforting!) and it's now sounding a mite clearer than before.

DSJR - I only did this to try out, don't know if it really is ideal but I've just double-sided sticky-taped the Spacemat to the platter which has tightened things up a tad.

If my mate who let me borrow the 1210 can hang on a couple of weeks I should be popping over to Ray's to have listen to his full-KAB Technics soon - will have to take this std one with me...would be churlish not to

[Marco]

Hi Richard,

It had to happen - went for broke and bought Jerry's mint condition A80 mono's.

Need to sell the little A30 power now and get onto saving for a pair of A40's to bi-amp.

Nice one. I must somehow get to listen to NVA amps. Mr Dunn was somewhat 'inflexible' in this regard unless I bought them first! I heard the Albarrys, which I loved and which Richard said were good but not as good as NVA amps, so if they're better than the Albarrys then I'm sure I would love them. Of course, I'm firmly in the 'valve camp' now, but I'm still curious to know what the NVAs sound like. I just like increasing my hi-fi listening experience

Oh, and while we're here...

Just re-positioned the Spacedeck and sat down to some more tunes.

Verdict? Same obsvervations apply re the sound of the 1210 vs the NAS - the NAS is clearer, better organised - the music in this instance is Eddie Daniels 'Blackwood' with ED's Clarinet having quicker, more 'bubbly' articulation. Phrases and breaks are easier to follow, there's a greater sense of progress and brio and where the Technics would lose grip slightly on musical dynamics (ie if a phrase is pushed harder) the NAS definitely has greater headroom.

I don't doubt it. The NAS *is* a bloody good T/T, however I'm pretty confident modifying the 1210 as I've described to you before would eradicate those weaknesses. Basically, a better tonearm (or modifying the existing one) and the addition of the off-board PSU would sort it out - the remainder of the modifications to ancillaries being merely 'icing on the cake'.

However...and this is where things get interesting...

The 1210's bass is stunning - the particular lp mentioned above has lots of really deep bass synth which is nearly always playing just before or after the main beat, giving a sense of 'swing' to use a vague description - it's 'funkier' in other words. Addictive in fact.

This is one of the areas where the SL-1210 (and other quality direct-drives) excel, and again it's because of highly accurate speed stability, and most importantly, the massively superior torque of a direct-drive motor compared to what's used in most belt-drives.

Think of a diesel engine versus a petrol one; the way the diesel engine 'pulls' much better going uphill, particularly when driving into the wind, or when towing a load. The SL-1210 does a similar trick with bass-lines in music and just doesn't allow 'difficult conditions' (i.e. the reproduction of more demanding bass notes) to slow down the momentum of the music - it just grabs hold of such bass notes, exerting phenomenal control, and 'pulls them into line' so that they are reproduced tightly, deeply, and accurately, without 'flab' or the ponderous quality one often hears with poorer quality belt-drive T/Ts. You also get increased 'weight' and extension. This is all down to the torque of the D/D mechanism.

The fact is the coloration which some people like (say for example in LP12s) is largely bass notes not being properly controlled and the resulting 'softness' colouring the midrange and creating a euphonic effect which is pleasing to some people's ears. This is somewhat lovingly referred to as 'tunefulness'. The fact however is that there is nothing 'tuneful' about it - it is merely a form of distortion present due to inaccuracies in the reproduction process. Like I've said before, what you get with a good D/D deck is a neutral platform from which to hear music reproduced accurately with as little coloration of the signal as possible - any coloration that exists comes mainly from the partnering arm and cartridge!

For a 'cheap' (and it is cheap - in terms of £££) Japanese DD turntable to get this close, totally bog-standard (bar using the NAS Spacemat with Ringmat on top) to easily the best, most musical turntable I've owned in 30 years, is starting to go down as possibly the biggest wake-up call this year.

Yes, I had a similar 'wake up call' when I heard a quality direct-drive turntable for the first time, and I would now use nothing else. Once your ears become attuned to the coloration low to medium mass belt-drive T/Ts impose on the sound there is no going back. I've addressed the "cheap" issue of the 1210 on my thread about T/T mechanisms and the Grand Prix Monaco direct-drive T/T reviewed by Roy Gregory in Hi-Fi+. "Cheap Japanese DD turntable" is simply a misnomer.

If I were you, Richard, I would seriously think about selling the NAS and using the money to buy a fully modified KAB SL-1210. Trust me, you won't regret it. Because now that you've had a small taste of what the 1210 can do you won't satisfied until you experience the full effect everytime you play records!

Perhaps we should do an NVA amp/1210 listening session when you move to your new house? I'm sure that would be interesting for both of us

Marco.

[Gromit]

What's the general consensus re the arm on the 1210? From what I'm hearing with my own ears, the OEM one is pretty good - it's doing a decent enough job of keeping my Lyra in check, and the tracking is clean enough; highly modulated piano strikes cause a tiny amount of break-up but saying that I've not heard the particular example I have in mind sound clean on any turntable.

Couple (OK 3) of reasons for keeping the standard arm, should I go for a new 1210...

1. I can easily keep a spare headshell with a cheap cartridge in so my daughter will be able to play records.
2. It feels like a quality item, despite the journos being slightly dismissive of it.
3. It looks cool, like all S-shaped arms.

[Marco]

LOL. Let's cut to the nitty gritty, Richard. Are you seriously thinking of getting as SL-1210? Then we can deal with the issue of arms

Btw, the journos know jack shit about the stock arm.

Marco.

[scoobs]

Rich
I would imagine that the re-wire is the killer upgrade for the stock arm, J7 may be able to perform the necessary surgery there, the fluid damper can be bought off the shelf from Kevin (KAB) and easily installed, add a custom counterweight, a nice headshell/leads and your away! As good as, if not better than a tecnoarm....and cooler looking of course!

[Marco]

As good as, if not better than a tecnoarm....and cooler looking of course!

I think it's WAY better than that, Nick! Thus modified, I'd put it more into RB1000/SME IV territory, myself, but with a different style of sound.

Marco.

[Gromit]

Hi Marco - yes, I am serious about getting a 1210 and just trying to weigh-up the various permutations of what to get. Sure I could just order up a new fully-modded KAB from the States which would cost around the same as I'd get for my NAS. However I really like the idea of getting one here (I see a nearly new one went on eBay for 180 quid the other day) then doing the mods to it as time goes on - always nice to tweak in stages I think, simply because it's fun.

I would also be happy to run a standard one for quite a while - the one I'm using isn't in its first flush of youth yet still works perfectly.

[ray70]

If my mate who let me borrow the 1210 can hang on a couple of weeks I should be popping over to Ray's to have listen to his full-KAB Technics soon - will have to take this std one with me...would be churlish not to

That would certainly be interesting Richard! Still on for our get together - will be in touch nearer the time.