re ISIS my understanding is that they were formed from the remanants of the Iraqui Republican Guard.
They expected to remain in the Iraqi army after the coalition and continue to keep Iraq stable. The Americans made an enourmosu blunder by completely dismantling the existing Iraqi army and starting afresh.
Disillusioned and feeling rejected they decided to start out on their own.
A lot of the issues were caused by the West/The Americans. That cannot be denied. On the other hand you cannot invade and attempt to reconstruct a country like Iraq without making at least some mistakes. It did not help that as soon as Saddam and his army were history the Sunni and Shia were at each other's throats immediately. Why was that necessary? We are not dealing with an entirely rational mindset here.
Joe - re Gadaffi and Saddam I do not think the intention was to bring them democracy by intervening. Nothing so high-minded. It is postulated that both leaders were threatening to start selling oil in Euros instead of dollars, thus threatening the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency. Perhaps that is untrue, I don't know but it certainly seems more likely than the 'bringing democracy' argument. Plenty of other nations are not democracies and we are not invading them.
Removing the Americans from any foreign policy making decisions would help a lot IMO. Trouble is they have all the troops, planes and boats so they call the shots and they make bad calls way too often.
To my mind a man attacks troops invading his country, that is warfare and can be justified. He deliberately attacks children, that's murder and cannot be justified. I don't care how many of his family have died or in what circumstances.
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Location: Sussex
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I'm Simon.
Adria, Also how do you draw a link between Libya and salman abedi. His father was associated to a militant organisation to overthrown gadaffi in the 1990s which is said to have disbanded in 2011, the father lives there, but according to the sister salman abedi was annoyed by US bombing of Syria and obviously IS.
So there is no way to link US involvement in Syria to remove IS to stop their rampage and killing innocent Shia muslims, as an apology for this British man killing British citizens. Can you possibly make the explanation for me per my last point about how you reckoned air strikes on Syria by the US against IS could be cause for a British based man to bomb Manchester. I think you said you may not have understood British terrorism, but i wonder how can it be anyone else's fault but abedis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ester-bombers/
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I'm joe.
Libya/Syria were seen to be part of the so-called 'Arab Spring'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring
Whatever the real motive for intervention, some high-minded Westerners believed that, with Assad and Gadaffi gone, liberal democratic structures would emerge. Wishful thinking, of course. I recall one poster on A N Other forum getting excited about the prospect of Syria being free from a brutal dictator. I quoted the words of Robert Walpole to the effect that 'Today they are ringing the bells, tomorrow they will be wringing their hands', and was accused of being cynical.
Location: Sussex
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I'm Simon.
Martin, IS saw it as a political opportunity to take challenge against the Shia muslims and run riot and kill and pillage. The present situation is around Syria and the infiltration of Isis and this terrorist went to Syria before returning to Manchester. This is a concerted effort by is to form an Islamic Sunni state. That's the point. People like abedi is a symphathiser to an Islamic state with sharia law, by being indoctrinated and the use of a political cause - that of the killings by the US against IS and this agenda and a purer form of Islam in sink with original strict scriptures. That's what's going on.
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LOL - why don't people learn some history? Everything happens just the same as it always does. When the Iraq invasion began I suggested to some friends who were still big Blair fans that if the 'Allies' wanted to find some weapons of mass destruction then they had better take some in with them. Yes, I was accused of being cynical...
Current Lash Up:
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Regards,
Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work.... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
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Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
"You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”
“There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”
***SMILE, BE HAPPY***
PS folks, please remember not to call each other names or be insulting. There have been instances already, and that has to stop
Regards,
Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work.... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -
Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
"You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”
“There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”
***SMILE, BE HAPPY***
Location: Sussex
Posts: 324
I'm Simon.
But it was about regime change and removing a murdering killing despot. And bloody right too. It was nothing to do with wmd for me, then and now. That was the liberal politics of the uk trying to cook up legitimacy for war with the US. Most people who were a bit gullible then didn't realise it was about regime change. That was what the yanks wanted i.e. Regime change, and without them nobody was going into Iraq.