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Thread: How to achieve Audio Heaven

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jul 2016

    Location: Welsh Borders

    Posts: 283
    I'm Gary.

    Default How to achieve Audio Heaven

    Ha! That title pulled you in didn't it ... !

    At this point, then, I can tell you that it was a question, not a statement. This thread is really a transfer or a continuation of a discussion that was half-started in my introductory post last week over on the Welcome forum. In it, I was bellyaching about having got "lost in hi-fi", and I received this kind invitation from Barry:

    "Welcome to AoS Gary,

    We seem to be of a similar age, have had a similar start in hi fi and similar tastes in music (I still have my copy of 'Five Bridges' ).

    If you can give us an idea of the "sound you like", then we might be able to help. Or alternatively, list the cartridges/phonostages you have tried, which obviously haven't done it for you. By the way what arm are you using with your Garrard? That might have a bearing on your choice of cartridge."


    It all started with an intended upgrade (how many times have we heard that?). I was taken with a desire to replace my Notts Analogue turntable with a Garrard 401 - I have a liking for things that are a bit funky and backward-looking. That was the easy bit - a nice 401 was located, purchased and installed. I also decided to treat myself to a new arm to go with it. The SME M2-R (the pretty "J"-shaped one) looked like the right sort of aesthetic for a 401, and gets highly positive reviews. so that was acquisition no.2. All good so far - looks wonderful. Imagine my horror, though, when I fitted my much-loved Music Maker III cartridge and lowered the needle on my first record, to find that they just wouldn't work together! The cartridge was furiously agitated and unstable; you could see it wobbling fast from side to side as soon as the needle touched the grooves, and it would mis-track badly at every opportunity. So out it came and was replaced by my Decca Gold. Both these cartridges had lived and worked very happily for years in a Hadcock arm on my NA turntable. The Decca fared a bit better in the new arm than the Music Maker, but not much. Certainly not stable or happy enough to stay like that. So the hunt was on for a new cartridge. Being a moving magnet loyalist I bought a second-hand Nagaoka MP500 with low hours on it. Well, that's a lovely cartridge - sumptuously rich, detailed and so civilised, plus it tracks like a tank. But I thought it was lacking a bit of top-end "bite", so where next? Well, all the smart advice would say "don't complicate things! don't change anything else in the system until you have sorted this out!". So what did I do? I bought an Audio Note phono stage, thinking I would retire my Croft Epoch and just go for a direct-coupled source-to-power amp set-up like I used to have years ago. The thinking was OK, but unfortunately the phono stage didn't sound right to me when it arrived and I set it up - too much hum and valve roar. I tried it this way and I tried it that way and with every cartridge I possessed, but it still didn't seem right, so in disgust I ordered an NVA Phono 2, which hasn't arrived yet. Meanwhile the Croft has been re-installed in the system and sounds fab, like it always does. (Why do we do this to ourselves?) Meanwhile, on the cartridge front - remember that - I acquired an Audio Technica AT33, with an inexpensive AT step-up transformer, to try and find out what the magic of moving coils is all about. Crikey! If I thought that the Nagaoka lacked a little bit of top end bite, this fellow nearly took my head off! To be fair, after fifteen hours or so playing it sweetened up a lot and sounds really good. It does however really let you know if the quality of the recording or pressing is a bit toppy. I would say this one is a keeper (hooray!), but I suppose my really ideal sound would be somewhere pitched between the Nag and the AT. Back in the land of phono stages, the Dutch dealer who sold me the Audio Note is refusing to answer my emails or phone calls, so it looks like the chances of returning that to him are slim. So I have determined to persevere with it (which is no too much of a hardship as it sounds absolutely sublime once the needle hit the groove and music drowns out the hum). I have arranged to send it to Jez (Arkless, of this parish) who will be able to sort it out for me, I'm sure. Then I'll just have three phono stages and four cartridges to juggle. Honestly - it was never meant to be like this. I know I have been a very silly boy by breaking the first law of upgrades: "one component at a time"! But I think I can see light at the end of the tunnel. I'll most likely stick with the AT cartridge, and assuming Jez can sort out the Audio Note phono stage, I'll be set up! But it will be a long time before I go in for any more upgrades ( ... honest!). Cheers. Infinitely Baffled.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,096
    I'm Alan.

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    Great stuff Gary, you have the right idea.

    Surround yourself with oodles of kit and then wonder where all the living space went to

    You should have just stuck to the Croft (like we all stick to things ), but I'm sure Jez can sort the Audio Note for you. Will be interesting to know where it is wanting in performance, sound rather like too much gain to me possibly.

    Anyway, good post, keep 'em coming.


  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,626
    I'm Geoff.

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    If you are using an AT-630 transformer with the AT-33, you will not be hearing the cartridge at its best by any means. The sound from the AT-630 is crude and two dimensional compared to a decent SUT. I have compared this unit with several good SUTs and it falls short.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,883
    I'm James.

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    Just can't go wrong with Croft and Deccas!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jul 2016

    Location: Welsh Borders

    Posts: 283
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Just can't go wrong with Croft and Deccas!
    I'm beginning to think that this is right! It could be all you need. IB.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jul 2016

    Location: Welsh Borders

    Posts: 283
    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    If you are using an AT-630 transformer with the AT-33, you will not be hearing the cartridge at its best by any means. The sound from the AT-630 is crude and two dimensional compared to a decent SUT. I have compared this unit with several good SUTs and it falls short.
    That's interesting, Geoff! It was a quick fix really, to enable me to dip a toe in the water, as it were. I did have a snoop around the web at SUTs, though, and was confronted with a bewildering array of different devices ranging from svelte anodised-finish boxes at 2 grand (no thanks!) to things on Ebay that resembled old baked-bean cans for 60 squid. I plumped for the AT partly for price, but also because I reckoned that it would probably be "voiced" appropriately for the cartridge, coming from the same manufacturer. I'd be interested to hear what you found worked well, and with what cartridges, though. Cheers. Gary.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,626
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    The Fidelity Research FRT-3 is very good at the lower end of the price spectrum.

    I've had three of them and they've worked with every MC I've tried, Including Ortofon, ZYX, Technics and of course Fidelity Research amongst others. The FRT-3 offers selection of 10ohm, 30ohm and bypass. I tend to leave it on 30ohms though. I have more exotic SUTs, but the FRT-3 is a sweet sounding unit. You'd find the improvement over the AT-630 a bit of a shock I think. I've done the comparison, having had a few AT-630s come my way.

    SUTs are not 'voiced', they just transform. The AT-630 works with a wide range of MCs, but I wouldn't keep one.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  8. #8
    Join Date: Mar 2015

    Location: Finland

    Posts: 237
    I'm Kai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    The Fidelity Research FRT-3 is very good at the lower end of the price spectrum.

    I've had three of them and they've worked with every MC I've tried, Including Ortofon, ZYX, Technics and of course Fidelity Research amongst others. The FRT-3 offers selection of 10ohm, 30ohm and bypass. I tend to leave it on 30ohms though. I have more exotic SUTs, but the FRT-3 is a sweet sounding unit. You'd find the improvement over the AT-630 a bit of a shock I think. I've done the comparison, having had a few AT-630s come my way.

    SUTs are not 'voiced', they just transform. The AT-630 works with a wide range of MCs, but I wouldn't keep one.
    I second this, The FRT-3 is a wonderful little unit. Sometimes you can also find DIY units utilizing some old microphone transformers for pretty cheap on eBay etc. - some of these can be surprisingly nice but it obviously depends on the transformers used and can be a bit hit or miss... I've got one I made using some peanut sized Beyer Dynamic transformers, it's surprisingly good though can't touch the FRT-3. But I don't feel it sounds bad at all, it just doesn't sound quite as good

    Regards the AT-630, it was their cheap effort, I think it was originally made to compliment the AT30E, but back in the day that whole package including the cartridge, SUT & a headshell probably retailed for less than the AT33E cartridge alone.

    If possible, getting the loading right with the MP-500 might help. Here's a graph what different capacitive loads do to MP-11 - http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpeg/nagaok...r_response.gif - I think the body is of higher inductance than the MP-500 and stylus is obviously very different, but it gives you an idea what happens to the freq response when you adjust loading.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

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    As you are sending your Audionote phono stage to me for repair anyway, I could put the head amp I make in the package when it goes back to you and you can try that if you like
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jul 2016

    Location: Welsh Borders

    Posts: 283
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    As you are sending your Audionote phono stage to me for repair anyway, I could put the head amp I make in the package when it goes back to you and you can try that if you like
    The AN is on its way to you now, Jez. And yes, good idea to include your head amp. It might be a solution I prefer to faffing around with transformers. Actually as I write this I am listening to the AT33 playing through the (universally disliked) AT630 and the NVA phono stage which arrived in the post this afternoon. It's very good, actually - really nice - and of course it's as quiet as can be. But then solid state, you would expect it to be wouldn't you? Cheers. Gary.

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