My first Technics SL1200 MK2

[kininigin]

Ok.i've got a few things to chew over,i'll stop hijacking the thread now,i'm getting carried away

Sorry Tony.

[Marco]

Are there alternatives to the MNB?

Not if you want a bespoke item, designed from the ground up. In that respect, Mike has currently no rivals. However, there are a few companies who modify and improve the stock bearing, for example Vantage Audio and Timestep. I think Origin Live also do one.

Personally, I'd stick with using the stock bearing until I had enough funds to buy an MNB, rather than waste money on a 'tarted up' one, as quite simply, there's nothing to touch it

Marco.

[kininigin]

Not if you want a bespoke item, designed from the ground up. In that respect, Mike has currently no rivals. However, there are a few companies who modify and improve the stock bearing, for example Vantage Audio and Timestep. I think Origin Live also do one.

Personally, I'd stick with using the stock bearing until I had enough funds to buy an MNB, rather than waste money on a 'tarted up' one, as quite simply, there's nothing to touch it

Marco.

I had a mnb for a very short while,so know the difference it made to my tt.Mike is apparently not likely going to make any more by the looks of it.Or have i got this wrong? Hence my questions about psu's and the stock bearing!

[Marco]

I suspect that opportunities will arise again, in due course, for Mike to produce another batch of bearings. I don't believe that it's the end of the line yet, but Mike will need to sort out his website, in terms of tailoring it to generate sales, as well as becoming more proactive, generally, in selling his bearings to potential customers. Quite simply, his 'laidback' approach has run out of steam...

My suggestion would be for Mike to approach David Brook (MCRU) and thrash out a deal whereby David funds (or partly funds) the upfront cost for the next batch of bearings that is produced, in return for becoming the UK and European distributor, and obviously is suitably rewarded, in terms of profit margin from future sales, for his investment.

I'm pretty sure that if David had some stock of Mike's bearings, that he would be able to sell them, both on here, and through his website. Therefore, David could handle sales in the UK and Europe, and Mike could take sales directly from his website (once it's working properly), from Australia, America and Asia.

I'm sure that could work and keep things ticking along nicely!

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

It would do unfortunate things to the price though Marco. It's already an expensive product in absolute terms - there are, I'm sure, plenty of people who would have filled Mike's order book many times over, had the price been less restrictive (no malice intended towards Mike, but it's a plain fact). Inserting another link in the chain can't make it cheaper - David or anyone else would want their pound of flesh. That would make it even more restrictive, I'd have thought.
Another tack might be for Mike to branch out a bit, away from the Technics TT and try to make his core bearing design applicable to other turntables. That way, the market is broadened very widely at a stroke.

[Marco]

I think your second suggestion, Chris, is an excellent one, and something that Mike should definitely consider.

You're also right to an extent about the cost of involving David, as a middle man. However, you also have to bear in mind that the price Mike is currently charging for his bearings is effectively a retail price, i.e. with a margin built-in, after his costs, to make whatever profit he thinks is justifiable for his efforts.

However, it wouldn't be sensible for Mike to supply David with the bearings at the same price he retails them for, and then for David to add his cut - that would just be silly. The cost to David would have to be trade, rather than retail, thereby reducing the retail price to the customer accordingly, minus that margin, and therefore allowing David to add his cut, hopefully without the final price becoming much more than it is now. I don't think it's in anyone's long-term interests to be too greedy!

Basically, Mike would have to work out a trade price to charge David, which covers his costs and gives him some profit, yes less than before, but in the hope that David will be able to generate more sales (something I have little doubt about), and therefore pay for more bearings to be produced, in order for Mike to make his money. Furthermore, David would need to be happy with the return he's getting on his investment, and so the price that Mike charges him for the bearings would have to allow sufficient leeway for David to make an acceptable profit.

In my opinion, David has the potential to generate more sales than Mike has been able to do so far, therefore even though Mike would be making less profit on an individual sale, he would gain in the long term, in terms of quantity of orders. Add also the fact that, as David is based in the UK, his customers there won't have to pay any tax or import duty on top of the retail price, as is the case now with buying directly from Mike in Oz, nor will they have to wait ages for them to arrive from the other side of the world, and I think it starts to become a viable proposition

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Nice idea, Marco, but I can't see there being enough in the trough for all concerned while ensuring a price that remains attractive to a potential buyer - Mike has already proved that saturation point for this item, to this market, has been almost reached at the current price. The formula needs addressing - times is tough out there for everyone.

[Marco]

I agree - but I think it's workable, especially as I know that David has long wanted to add Mike's bearings to his product portfolio

The two of them just need to get their heads together, not be too greedy, and focus on providing a valuable service to all Techy aficionados - and there *are* plenty out there. Yes, times are tough, but people can always save up for things, as long as said things are actually available in the first place to save up for!

Marco.

[Mike_New]

I have e-mailed Dave today,
My records show that I discussed the idea with Dave way back in Jan 2011 but I believe that when he did his calculations he found that it would not be commercially viable for either of us. I am only to willing to persue the idea further, but I believe that any commercial arrangement will predicated on how many Dave could commit to up-front. As I have said many times these are very high accuracy components (that is why they are so good) and required expensive machine tools and hand fitting by people who do this type of work for aerospace and medical applications.
If I could place an order for 100 units then prices would start to become viable for both of us, but this would entail a considerable cash outlay for both of us which would need to be returned as sales in a reasonable time in order to retain cash flow. I just do not think that there is this sales potential out there.

[MartinT]

I'm sure that Martin will offer his own view. However, I would say most certainly yes, as of the two (stock PSU and stock bearing), the stock bearing is the higher quality item, and therefore will stand upgrades better to other parts of the T/T.

Yes, I agree with that and an external PSU must be the first step in modification, in that it suddenly opens up the sound in a way that makes you want more. The PSU is the key, the bearing should come next. The two together create a result that really gives insight into the music, but keeps what the Technics delivers so well: dynamics, slam, bass extension, rhythm.