I've started this thread, ahead of plan, because of a concern that this discussion was hijacking another thread. So anyone fancy chewing the fat about innovation and the laws of physics, or any of the other topics in the title, feel free cos its my thread and I can talk about this stuff too.

Marco - Yes your point tidied up the language, but missed the point. Barnes Wallis (Stan cited him too in our earlier ding), James Dyson, and the Wilbur and Orville, all pushed the boundaries WITHIN THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. They were challenging what could be achieved, they were innovative, and determined, and right, and made major contributions, but they all acknowledged and worked WITH science. And they all convincingly demonstrated their ideas worked.

The Wright brothers did not strap a passing blond to a plane saying "trust me - it does work" - they flew it and proved it
Wallis did not say "trust me - it will bounce - just send 300 aircrew over and give it a go" he used maths and physics to prove it, then fired marbles at goldfish, and blew up garden ponds, before he even got prototype bombs into aircraft
And I'm worn out with James Dyson -

Have a barbecue to chef at - back later