Any Denon 103 fans here? I have one on the way to me...

[horace]

Hi folks

I took the plunge and bought Jason P's nuded 103 - should be with me any day now.

It was a bit of a punt, as I know Denon cartridges only by reputation (my last 3 cartridges have been AT-OC9 of various vintages, but the price of them has risen sharply).

Anyway, I believe the 103 in question (apart from being naked) has a threaded stabiliser attached to it, which will make fitting a bit easier. Jason has warned me to be extremely careful not to touch any of the exposed internal wires (I'll do my best, infamous hamfist that I am ).

I'm going to be putting the 103 on a Tecnoarm and will be using my modded Lynwood MC stage.

Couple of questions:

The phono stage isn't adjustable, but was a very good match to the AT-OC9, so what are the odds it will sound good with the 103? The Denon has a slightly lower output, but I had plenty of gain with the OC9 so that shouldn't be an issue. How the loading will work out is another matter of course.

Any general tips on getting the best out of the 103 would be appreciated.

Cheers

Martin

[chris@panteg]

Hi Martin

Marco is your man for the 103, but as far as i know the 103 likes a high mass arm and a good SUT like the A23, loading i think is around 100 ohms but others say different .

Like i said though i am sure Marco will be happy to advise you here.

[Barry]

Hi folks

I took the plunge and bought Jason P's nuded 103 - should be with me any day now.

It was a bit of a punt, as I know Denon cartridges only by reputation (my last 3 cartridges have been AT-OC9 of various vintages, but the price of them has risen sharply).

Anyway, I believe the 103 in question (apart from being naked) has a threaded stabiliser attached to it, which will make fitting a bit easier. Jason has warned me to be extremely careful not to touch any of the exposed internal wires (I'll do my best, infamous hamfist that I am ).

I'm going to be putting the 103 on a Tecnoarm and will be using my modded Lynwood MC stage.

Couple of questions:

The phono stage isn't adjustable, but was a very good match to the AT-OC9, so what are the odds it will sound good with the 103? The Denon has a slightly lower output, but I had plenty of gain with the OC9 so that shouldn't be an issue. How the loading will work out is another matter of course.

Any general tips on getting the best out of the 103 would be appreciated.

Cheers

Martin

Hello Martin,

Congratulations on acquiring the 103. Having a low compliance, it likes a fairly heavy headshell: total mass including that of the cartridge itself should be no less than 25g and no more than about 60g.

The loading will probably be the same as was presented to your OC9. 100 Ohms is ideal.

There are several fans of the Denon 103 here; I'm sure others will be along to offer you their advice.

Regards

[horace]

Hello Martin,

Congratulations on acquiring the 103. Having a low compliance, it likes a fairly heavy headshell: total mass including that of the cartridge itself should be no less than 25g and no more than about 60g.

The loading will probably be the same as was presented to your OC9. 100 Ohms is ideal.

There are several fans of the Denon 103 here; I'm sure others will be along to offer you their advice.

Regards

Thanks.

I reckon I'll find out soon enough

Looking forward to hearing it.

Cheers

Martin

[Jason P]

I reckon I'll find out soon enough

Tomorrow, if Royal Mail Spesh Del lives up to the hype. My other half posted it today for me as I'm away (again).

Hope you like it!

Jason

[kcc123]

Hi Martin,

Regarding the Denon 103 and AT OC9 cartridges, I think, I am qualified to say a thing or two.

I have been using Denon cartridges since the seventies. My first MC cartridge was a Denon DL103, the second a DL103D and the third a DL303……. I still own 7 Denon cartridges. I also have 9 AT cartridges as well, including the OC9 which I rate it highly though I prefer the PTG more.

I agree that the 103 needs a heavy arm to perform its best but instead I am using it with high gain active phono stages rather than a SUT into one of their MM inputs. I load both of the cartridges at 100 ohms, 40ohms setting if using the Denon AU-340 SUT loaded at 47K. Any way, you can also try it with different loadings, such as 200 or 300 ohms, and see which setting is best for your liking.

Your Techno arm has an effective mass of about 12 grams which may not be optimal for the Denon 103, but still it will be compatible. In fact, a 103R is a better choice than a stock 103.

[Marco]

Hi Martin,

I'm very surprised at your thread title, as one look through the archives would reveal that the answer to your question is 'Yes, rather a lot!'

I took the plunge and bought Jason P's nuded 103 - should be with me any day now.

It was a bit of a punt, as I know Denon cartridges only by reputation (my last 3 cartridges have been AT-OC9 of various vintages, but the price of them has risen sharply).

It'll be interesting to know what your reaction is when you hear the marked difference in presentation between both cartridges. The 103 isn't as bright sounding as the OC-9 (the latter having a noticeable treble peak when used in a neutral and revealing system), but neither is it dull when set up and partnered optimally - far from it.

What you should notice with the 103 is deeper and more tuneful bass, and an overall way with music that is beguiling and addictively infectious, which in my experience escapes the OC-9, as good as the latter is in a 'hi-fi' sense.

Anyway, I believe the 103 in question (apart from being naked) has a threaded stabiliser attached to it, which will make fitting a bit easier. Jason has warned me to be extremely careful not to touch any of the exposed internal wires (I'll do my best, infamous hamfist that I am ).

Yes, do be careful with that! Apart from making fitting it easlier, the stabiliser will also help provide added mass which the 103 will need in order to perform as optimally as possible on your Tecnoarm.

Couple of questions:

The phono stage isn't adjustable, but was a very good match to the AT-OC9, so what are the odds it will sound good with the 103?

Your phono stage should be fine, as both the OC-9 and 103 'like' loading at 100k, therefore you will have no issues there whatsoever. However, achieving a satisfactory result, sonically, will depend whether or not the signature of the 103 synergises sonically with that of the Tecnoarm and the rest of your system.

Any general tips on getting the best out of the 103 would be appreciated.

The Tecnoarm isn't an ideal partner for a 103, however, if you get the mass right at the headshell end, and your phono stage 'likes' the 103, then you've got a better than fighting chance of it delivering the goods to your satisfaction.

All I would say is be as fastidious as possible in terms of optimising VTA (you want the arm to be bang on level with the record playing surface), ensure that azimuth and alignment are 100% spot on, and track it at 2.6g, which in my experience, is where everything clicks into place, musically.

Good luck and if you need more advice, just ask!

Marco.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hi Martin,
The 103 isn't as bright sounding as the OC-9 (the latter having a noticeable treble peak when used in a neutral and revealing system)

Marco.

i appreciate im coming in to this as someone who has little experience of cartridges, but my ears, i think, are pretty good. i have had the first oc9 and now the oc9iii and treble brightness isn't something i have come across at all marco

[DSJR]

My Stilton OC9 DOESN'T have a treble peak in a neutral system, and neither do my speakers take off in the treble like old Tannoys do , but in fairness, the standard body of the 103 does seem to add its character to an otherwise excellent generator (with my reservations on the conical tip).

With a technoarm, I'd almost be inclined to add loads of mass at the headshell and increasing the mass of the counterweight to balance it all out. The one resonance remaining in the Rega pipe won't be excitied and the bearings will happily take the extra load.

[Marco]

Guys,

At the end of the day, you hear what you hear and like what you like. If to your ears in your system the OC-9's treble peak isn't noticeable, and you like how the cartridge sounds, then no-one can dispute that

Let's remember that a system (mine included) is precisely that: a collection of components whose collective sonic signatures are tailored to give a musically satisfying result, which is what I suggest will be happening in your systems with the OC-9.

However, unfortunately that doesn't detract from the fact that the OC-9 is intrinsically quite a bright sounding cartridge, and indeed has a clearly indentifed and measurable treble peak.

From this last month's HFW (where the OC-9 was being analysed in comparison to the featured MC cartridges under test):

The rise in output level towards the top end of the frequency range is, as with most MCs that measure this way, noticeable...

Indeed. I can quite clearly hear this, and it is precisely this "rise in output level towards the top end of the frequency range" that I dislike and find irritating, particularly with recordings which already have a treble emphasis (and/or lack of bass) of their own.

However, the article goes on to say:

...but this is never accompanied by any harshness or spittiness. Yes, this is quite a bright cartridge, but at the same time it manages to be sweet and beguiling at the top end, as such, is ideal for adding a touch of sparkle to a smoother sounding system.

I completely concur with that analysis, as it correlates exactly with my own experience of the using the OC-9. It's not bright in a nasty sense, far from it, but it is bright nonetheless. There is a graph accompanying the article which clearly shows the frequency at which the treble peak (I can clearly hear) occurs.

My system doesn't require 'added sparkle', and indeed being essentially neutral sounding, does not benefit from it - that's the bottom line. The 103SA I use does not exhibit those characteristics, and when optimally set up and partnered, is much more even-handed through the high frequencies, certainly in my system which is not lacking in either treble detail or bass depth.

I guess that Martin will be able to put his finger on what I'm referring to, when after having been used to the presentation of his OC-9, hears the nuded 103....

The other thing is, anyone who's carried out a detailed comparison between the OC-9 and the AT-33PTG will also be aware of what I'm referring to, where the latter's deeper bass adds body to upper frequencies, meaning that treble is not spotlit and exposed in a way which escapes the OC-9, although Dave's Stilton modifications may ameliorate that effect to some degree.

Like I said though guys, what I describe about the OC-9 is not necessarily what you're hearing in your own systems, as the overall balance will have been tailored in the OC-9's favour (or pehaps you just enjoy a slightly emphasised treble, as many people do), otherwise you wouldn't have chosen one in the first place!

Marco.