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Thread: Naim's new power lead - addressing the controversy

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default Naim's new power lead - addressing the controversy

    Hullabaloos seem to be the flavour of the month, and not long after the ‘AudioWorks affair’ we now have ‘Naimgate’.

    At the recent Sound & Vision Manchester hi-fi show, Naim audio, apart from releasing their brand new (and excellent) phono stage, the Superline, which I will be mentioning separately along with the rest of the system they demonstrated when I review the show itself shortly, also had the 'audacity' (yes that’s how some view it!) to release a brand new power cable complete with specially designed 13A mains plug and IEC connector.

    Howls of derision are occurring on other forums where dyed-in-the-wool ‘Naimees’, brought up in the true ‘flat-earth’ tradition, are accusing Naim of selling their souls to the devil (although one particular ‘devil’, somewhat uninitiated in matters of hi-fi, seems would no sooner buy the new power cable than he would embrace Creationism ). These guys are crying that Naim were once the bastions of non-tweakery – the company never used to believe in ‘fancy’ cables or interconnect leads, as the cables provided were simple, ‘adequate’ for the job, and included with equipment.

    The last bit of course is true, although Naim have always been aware of the importance of good quality cables designed to get the most from their equipment - indeed much time and effort is spent testing the cables that customers are supplied with. These are auditioned by ear and hand selected for best performance. The rest of the moaning above by the faithful is merely poor factual awareness clouded in nostalgia.

    Well time has moved on – Naim believe they are a progressive minded company and have now taken a step further in their product development. Following on from the success of the Hi-line interconnect lead they have now designed their own brand new power cable. So to the faithful I say dry your eyes and wake up to the new world, this is 2008 not 1998!

    Steve and me were both present at one of the closed demo sessions Naim held throughout the Sunday of the show and were treated to a demonstration by Mark from Naim who was most informative and knowledgeable throughout. I’m not going to enter into great detail describing the minutiae of what I heard as that is not particularly relevant to the point I’m making. However suffice to say that substituting the new power cable for the ‘Hydra’ flying lead powering the PSU for the CDS555 CDP brought about a significant and to me easily heard improvement originating I suspect from a perceived reduction in the noise floor of the system demonstrated, which I’m almost certain under the right circumstances could be measured.

    So why could this new power lead be better than the old one and thus considered a viable upgrade?

    Many will of course say that mains cable is mains cable, and in an electrical sense this is certainly true, however those bleating about Naim ‘selling out’ and embracing the sensibilities of the ‘foo-foo’ merchants are concentrating on one area: the cable itself and forgetting where most of the R&D has been undertaken – in the design of the mains plug and IEC connector. A power cable is not just a length of wire! Having seen both of these items I can confirm that it’s obvious a lot of work has gone into their design, particularly with regard to decoupling, and no doubt some of this would have been expensive to undertake, especially gaining the required safety approval certificate from the authorities. Both items are also quite heavy and made from high quality materials – this is obviously no bog standard mass-produced ‘kettle lead’.

    It has long been my opinion that the plugs and connectors are more important on a cable (mains lead or interconnect) than the wire itself. Of particular importance I feel is the integrity of the mechanical connection presented to the equipment or wall socket/power strip and how microphonic is the whole assembly, including that of the sockets on the equipment. I believe that, similar to with equipment supports, vibration, both source-derived at plugs and sockets, and airborne, pollutes the musical signal so therefore must be prevented from entering the chain at source. All this is of course entirely subjective but I feel that it could be measured with the right apparatus. Naim’s solution is to decouple the plugs from their relevant sockets as far as possible and judging purely by listening to the results achieved it seems to be very effective.

    If we continue to concentrate on the effect of the plugs and IEC connectors used and the integrity of the mechanical connection on the cable, as well as the (‘harmful’) transferral of vibration described above, as being largely, or almost entirely, responsible for why some power cables might sound different from each other (although I personally think there’s a little bit more to it than that) and Naim have created an effective solution to that problem, then why shouldn’t their new power cable be an upgrade from the bog standard power cables they used before which address none of those issues?

    I’m not saying that this is indisputably the case – I’m certainly not in a position to do so – but it seems to me like a reasonable theory and one that should be provable if someone could come up with the right measurements to facilitate meaningful experiments. Certainly in a subjective sense what I heard at the show was significant enough to suggest that the upgrade obtained by changing to the new power lead is indeed very worthwhile.

    Looking briefly at the wire itself used, and yes it’s a totally different type to what was used before on the old power cables, it has a woven construction, which is a process known to help remove the effects of RFI and EMI mains-borne interference. It is also of a heavier gauge and amperage rating to the old wire used in the previous power cables, which together in itself could be sufficient reason why the new power cables improve sound quality so significantly. I don’t think this aspect of their design should be overlooked. One last thing to consider is it's a well known fact that lowering the impedance on the mains supply always results in improved sound quality. Poor connections between plugs and sockets has the effect of raising the impedance, so in the case of Naim's new power cable, it could be that the decoupling system used has the simple effect of ensuring a better connection and thus lowers the impedance on the mains 'signal' supplied to the equipment. Again, this effect should be measurable.

    And so to the price…

    There is of course a big hoo-hah amongst the faithful regarding the cost of these new leads - £395 each, but consider this: what if I said that the improvement gained was as significant and worthwhile as, say, adding a Supercap, and I’ve got plenty of experience of using Naim equipment to know what I’m taking about by making that statement, would it be considered expensive then? I can tell you that the difference the new power cable made for example when added to the CDS555’s PSU was nearly as significant as Mark changing from driving the SL2 speakers passively to actively – and no I’m not kidding. Also £395 for an obviously heavily researched and well-designed and built product is not expensive when compared to similar offerings from established cable specialists such as Siltech, Transparent, Nordost, etc. Indeed in comparison to power cables offered from some of those manufacturers Naim’s new power cable is a veritable bargain!

    I suppose if I had to select which upgrade to choose and someone else was paying for it then I would go for the active speaker upgrade demonstrated at the show, but on a sound-per-pound basis the new power cable wins easily. I would go as far to say that if I still used a Naim system I’d spend the money first on upgrading my existing power cables throughout before I considered a component upgrade, such are the fundamental improvements the new power cables bring to the presentation of a Naim system and the more effective way music is communicated and enjoyed.

    Some food for thought perhaps for the cynics and old diehards to consider elsewhere…

    Other opinions on this appreciated!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Posts: 505

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    I remember changing from Naim bog standard years ago to Chord company cable, noticing a small improvement,not much but worth the small outlay.But £395.00 seems a hell of a lot of cash for mains cable regardless of how much research has gone into the initial design if anything really new.I for one would everytime opt for the Kimber 'Reference powerkord' .If i was going to splash out for new, the Kimber @ £125.00 metre length would be it, has Teflon coated hyperpure conductors..woven to combat RFI the same..MK 'toughplug' & wattgate IEC (cryogenically treated)...All other Kimber interconnects for the Naim sound like a million dollars, i don't see why Kimbers mains should'nt sound as good at a fraction of the price Naim are asking.. I bet the Naims would sound no better.But if you must have a Naim badge it might well sound the best way..

    Of course i've not seen nor heard so can't really judge, this is just my own personal view of the situation..
    Last edited by Vinyl Grinder; 02-02-2008 at 01:58.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Andr'e,

    I hear what you're saying about cost - £395 is indeed a lot of money, but having seen the power lead in the flesh I don't doubt that a significant amount of R&D has gone into the design, not to mention the expense of obtaining the relevant safety certificate to enable them to sell the lead not only in the UK, but also into Europe and the US, which don't forget, all use different types of mains connectors, so of course this adds to the cost, too. People tend to forget about this. The retail price of any piece of hi-fi equipment reflects many things, not just the cost of materials.

    I do rate some of the Kimber cables that are sold by Russ Andrews. Indeed he largely pioneered the use of high quality aftermarket mains leads in the UK, and introduced some innovative ideas to the market, which many have since copied. His 'entry-level' cables in my experience offer excellent performance and value for money, but some of his more expensive offerings are off the pace compared to those from more individually specialist cable manufacturers such as Siltech, Transparent, Chord, Stereovox, VDH, to name but a few.

    In a Naim system (since this thread is after all about Naim) I would tend not to use any other power cable than their own as it will have been designed to maximise the performance of their equipment. Like you say, you haven't heard their new power cable so it's difficult for you to appreciate its capabilities in the way that I am able to, or indeed anyone else who heard its effect at the show demonstration. In terms of sound-per-pound I think it's a fantastic upgrade for all Naim users.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

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    I can certainly comment on a change of mains cables for an increase in quality - the Audioworks demo proved that as did me weaving my own litz cables a year or so ago. Any tweak can make a difference, whether it is an improvement or not lies at the door or the listener, but I do think improvements can be had in this area.

    However, £395 is a HUGE amount of money for a mains cable and whether the improvement is £395 worth is another matter. That amount of dosh could pay for speaker stands or speaker cable or interconnects (or in some cases all three) which would make a far bigger difference. Also my mains cables cost about £7 each to make, ok so they took a little time, but they improved my system no end.

    Are Naim users simply paying for the cables to have Naim written on them? I don't doubt that they do improve things as many tweaks do, but surely unless everything else in the system is perfect the money could be better spent further down the chain - i.e. greater yield of improvement per pound spent.

    I guess this is similar to the whole 'Keel' thing.

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
    Edifier S3000 Pro active speakers
    Atacama SE24 stands

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    However, £395 is a HUGE amount of money for a mains cable and whether the improvement is £395 worth is another matter. That amount of dosh could pay for speaker stands or speaker cable or interconnects (or in some cases all three) which would make a far bigger difference.
    Rob, if you think £395 is a lot for a mains cable it's a good job you don't know how much I've spent on the mains cables throughout my system, not to mention the interconnects and speaker cable

    I'm sure Steve would also make a similar comment about the cables in use in his system

    Of course you're right, £395 *is* a lot of money, but you can pay much more than that and not get the performance lift that Naim's new power cable offers - that's the point I was making. You really had to be there and hear its effect in the context of the demo system to appreciate the sound-per-pound value. That's why I made the comment I did about the Supercap, and indeed what was heard with when the speakers were made to go active.

    Are Naim users simply paying for the cables to have Naim written on them?
    No doubt some will, such is the nature of the brand's prestige value these days and the kudos it would give to those posting on the Naim forum... However, there are just as many Naim users who would buy it for the performance upgrade and how fundamentally better it allows their Naim gear to play music.

    I don't doubt that they do improve things as many tweaks do, but surely unless everything else in the system is perfect the money could be better spent further down the chain - i.e. greater yield of improvement per pound spent.
    I would argue that the mains is the 'source' (since what we're hearing through our speakers is effectively modulated mains - fact) so any improvements made in this area fundamentally effect the performance and sound of the rest of the system.

    That view is certainly borne out by experience, and I've got a fair bit of it experimenting over the years with how the mains supply affects the performance of a hi-fi system. Much of it has been debated at length on hi-fi forums, often creating plenty of 'entertainment' along the way

    I guess this is similar to the whole 'Keel' thing
    That's a different ball game, I feel.

    Marco.

    P.S Have you read the discussion about Naim's new power cable on Pink Fish?
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    P.S Have you read the discussion about Naim's new power cable on Pink Fish?
    Yes, and I'm in the same boat as Phil (Eden):

    Hummmm - IEC at one end, 3 pin plug at other end. £490 thank you very much multiplied by all those lovely Naim boxes - as I said on the Naim forum.
    I think the Keel marketing man has a new job in Salisbury
    Phil


    Remember, I make my own mains cables (which improve things very well) and I know how much components cost - pennies, even very expensive wire is pennies. Naim are certainly not going to be paying mega prices for their supplies so whilst I maintain that the cable could make a difference (and it has to really to maintain Naim's credibility) I just can't see how the price can be justified.

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
    Edifier S3000 Pro active speakers
    Atacama SE24 stands

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

    Default

    Ok, so I know that they have to make a profit and all that advertising has to be paid for, but that's why the cost is so high. How much would it cost to buy the components and make it oneself?

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
    Edifier S3000 Pro active speakers
    Atacama SE24 stands

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Pity Phil got the price so wrong!

    When you venture north to Welsh sheepy land in the near future, bring your mains leads with you and we'll conduct a little experiment.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Pity he's got the price so wrong!

    When you venture north to Welsh sheepy land in the near future, bring your mains leads with you and we'll conduct a little experiment.

    Marco.
    Again, I'm not saying that there is no difference to be had (I know that cables make a difference otherwise I wouldn't sit down for hours and weave them with aching fingers) but whether it's £395 or £490 or whatever, there's no way on earth they can add that much value to a system.

    It's the badge, same as the Keel.

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
    Edifier S3000 Pro active speakers
    Atacama SE24 stands

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

    Default

    Oh, and AVI make a really good point:

    Has anyone asked their electricity supply company if they think the ninety nine point nine percent of the cable they are supplying is up to it?
    Good question.

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
    Edifier S3000 Pro active speakers
    Atacama SE24 stands

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