Current turntable thinking...Question

[bubba45]

I've read a few posts from people selling in the 70's who all seeem to concur that actually the Linn LP12 / Ariston RD11 were excellent turntables when they came out and that they floored most of the competition for build and sound quality at the time.
A lot of the dealers say they weren't bullied into selling LP12's but Linn were just better for build, servicing, publicity, supply and quality control compared to other manufacturers in the same or even lower price category.
LP12's became a 'must have' for many people despite the HiFi press also giving great reviews to Systemdek, Thorens, Rega, Technics, JVC, Denon, etc
I've owned both Linn & Ariston and a number of other belt drives / suspended decks and many are excellent still. The Pink Triangle turntables are fantastic sounding TT's and possibly my favourite but I sold mine because the PT electronics and bearings are just too delicate for my liking.
In the 70's tinternet didn't exist and the DIY / aftermarket industry I imagine just wasn't as widespread or accessible as it is now.
It seems that Idlers like Garrards and particularly Goldring Lencos are so popular because they can be upgraded and tweaked and knowledge of what to do and how to do it comes almost exclusivley from the interweb.
The point I am meandering along to try and make is similar to others in that for quite a while Linn's sold well because they sounded better, were easier to get hold of and had better support.
The MK2 SL1200/1210's & the like from Technics weren't around until 1980 and the other japanese DD's of quality were not widely available in the same numbers as British belt drives.
By the time people caught on that Linn's were not the dogs CD was taking over and had it not been for the DJ market then the SL12**'s would have died out a long time ago. If it wasn't for the tinternet in the last few years then many people would still discount them as DJ decks and not HiFi at all.
From the mid 80's onwards most manufacturers started making poorer quality decks and as we know many have now gone bust.
To be honest if my choices were mainly between a lightweight mass produced plastic DD or a more solidly built belt drive I'd go for the belt drive anyday and I would recommend the same to anyone.
Its only because I've tried 40 odd decks in the last 5 years that I've gone for a Technics SL1210 / SL7 & eventually I'll have an SP10 too.
Does that make sense?

[WAD62]

Nope. Flip the belt on the motor pulley to change speed. Easy to do though as the motor pulley is 'out in the open'

Don't have it (or any turntable) anymore. Change in circumstances forced sale

Ah I remember from your other thread...I recognise the system, very nice!

I've become so used to my squeezebox system that the idea of getting up to change CD's seems like hard work, never mind changing gears on a TT

[WAD62]

To be honest if my choices were mainly between a lightweight mass produced plastic DD or a more solidly built belt drive I'd go for the belt drive anyday and I would recommend the same to anyone.
Its only because I've tried 40 odd decks in the last 5 years that I've gone for a Technics SL1210 / SL7 & eventually I'll have an SP10 too.
Does that make sense?

I think so but lets check my understanding...

Are you therefore saying that the Technics is a solidly built DD and is preferable to most belt drives, which are in turn preferable to flimsy DD's?

I notice you have a DL160, I really like the DL110 I'm using on my Axis, (but the suspension isn't what it was, a common issue with the Axis), would this be reasonably compatible with an SL1210? And what model would outperform something like the Axis?...tough question I know

[DSJR]

By the late 70's, the far eastern control over most UK HiFi grade systems was starting to wane and the direct driven decks available in the UK, by and large, became less and less popular with the growing number of "in" dealers - the Linn and Naim ones primarily. Dealers like us didn't see many alternatives for a few years as clients either stayed away, or the manufacturers.distributers stayed away because of "our" negative attitude to alternative products (takes one to know one and I was one for a while). However, the dealership I worked for wasn't totally Linn-centric. We didn't do Systemdeck, as the IIX-900 didn't cost hugely more than a Rega but took loads of setting up, but we did sell the Manticore Mantra (LP12 mini-me), Heybrook TT2, which got better and better, Revolver and the Rock II, which was so good and, as Max demonstrated using a Decca with Pod, so close to CD using well mastered LP's and CD's of the same album

By the very late eighties, we were getting decks of all sorts for cartridge and/or tonearm upgrades. This was when I got the chance to hear the old Techies in a fresh light, and how good they really could be with modern cartridges and decent support equipment. I had loads of fun also with AR's, Lencos and Thorens machines

I know I'm possibly a lone voice here, but the drive system is irrelevant to music anjoyment via vinyl records. The Techie does have its strong points, but the upgrade path is an expensive one and many fellas may feel compelled to follow that path to techie nirvana. On the other hand, one can have huge enjoyment from a Rega, Pro-Ject or Thorens deck, which should give a well balanced perspective on what's there. of course, there's the used market too, although the better known decks are commanding higher prices these days (Lenco (G)L75 the latest one to shoot up in value).

[Welder]

I must admit, I had never considered the Technics decks as “audiophile” decks until I joined this forum. In fact, if anyone had said they were my response would have been, don’t be silly.
It’s not that I was a Linn fan either, had one, fussy bugger, sounded different every time the temperature change, upgrades started to get silly expensive and the basic deck wasn’t all that anyway imo.
I’ve always liked Thorens decks. They were the DIY tweakers gold standard back in the day and even now I’m fairly certain that if you put the kind of money the Technics chaps here do into a Thorens it would sound just as good.
I’ve yet to hear a tweaked Technics deck but given the it seems an outlay of £3000 is needed to make it sing it will need to be bloody good before I say “don’t be silly”.
Fortunately I don’t have to worry about all that now.

[bubba45]

Hi Will
What I would say is this:

I have used my Mission 774SM arm with a DL160 (wonderful combination) on both a Pink Triangle PT1 & now on a Technics SL1210. (Its been on other decks too)

Both sound superb but for me the PT1 gets it every time. It is just such a beautiful musical deck, sometimes made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, made me smile and gave me goosebumps listening to it. As stock it needs no tweaking to get it to close to Hi-end sound, just a damn good arm.

The SL1210 / 774SM / DL160 is a close second and sounds bloody great, blows most other decks I've owned out of the water but in all honesty needs a Funk Firm Achromat, possibly Isonoe feet & maybe even external PSU to get up to the PT1 standard.

However I've sold the PT1 and will stick with the SL1210 because:
it does sound so great as is;
is renowned for reliability;
has a sturdy sturdy build & design I quite like
and compared to most vintage TT's there is relatively easy access to spare parts.

The PT1 is very delicate particularly its bearing and electronics and spares of any kind for it are essentially made of unobtainium and so I personally didn't have a lot of faith for its long term future if I'd kept it.

As for cheaper, lighter DD's I'd rather have a Rega P2 or 3 than most of the ones I've seen, owned or heard about.

I think that back in the 70's & 80's had the interweb been around the TT market place / history of 'triumphant' makes and models may have been quite different to what actually happened.

Not sure if that answers your questions?

P.S. I've no experience of a Linn Basik or Axis but the latter has always had good reviews by people who've owned them.

P.P.S. the SP10 that Vantage Audio are refurbishing for me is a strange one really. I've never invested so heavily in a deck just out of curiosity and still not sure why I bought it, but if it does kick the arse off my SL1210 I'll be a very very happy man.

[Spectral Morn]

sadly I was pulled up recently on something I once said about a Technics 1200/1210..... I can't remember when but I guess it was maybe three years agoish.......

Customer "I have a Technics turntable "

Me "Why would you want one of those ? " what an ignorant plank I was at that point I should have said "tell me more, I would love to hear it" However I didn't.....stupid ignorant plank.

My view was that DD turntables.....all DD turntables were not very good as the motors fed vibration into the platter and belt drives didn't.....and no I didn't sell Linns.

I know different now


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

To answer one or two questions from earlier in this thread:
The Rock MkII was £299 when I became interested in it. The plinth cost an extra £99. The Excalibur arm was another £299 & there was a big power supply that I can't remember the price of.

The Gyrodec has a switchable speed change if you have the big PSU.

When I had proper cash to spend on a turntable (1991, I think), I auditioned the Linn, Roksan, PT Anniversary & Export but thought the Michell beat the lot into a cocked hat. I was going against all sorts of perceived wisdom at the time & it was only later that the Gyro became accepted as being more than just 'nice to look at'.

[Marco]

Hi John,

I’ve yet to hear a tweaked Technics deck but given the it seems an outlay of £3000 is needed to make it sing it will need to be bloody good before I say “don’t be silly”.

Lol - I wouldn't say you needed £3k to make it sing, more like £1k. Spend £3k on it, however (as I have roughly), and what you end up with is a T/T that can take on pretty much anything on the market

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Neil,

sadly I was pulled up recently on something I once said about a Technics 1200/1210..... I can't remember when but I guess it was maybe three years agoish.......

Customer "I have a Technics turntable "

Me "Why would you want one of those ? " what an ignorant plank I was at that point ( I should have said "tell me more, I would love to hear it" However I didn't.....stupid ignorant plank.

My view was that DD turntables.....all DD turntables were not very good as the motors fed vibration into the platter and belt drives didn't.....and no I didn't sell Linns.

I know different now

It just shows how easy it is to become short-sighted and blinkered. I would love to expose the whole of the UK audio community to what you've experienced in the hope that for some of them, the penny might drop!

However, much would depend on how firmly the Linn/Rega/Michell/SME/Roksan über alles chip was embedded into their domes....!

I'm not saying that there's necessarily anything wrong with those T/Ts, but rather those are what most people in the UK were conditioned into believing were the 'de-facto choices' of the day, whether they were in fact sonically the best at their respective price points or not.

Quality Jap direct-drive T/Ts were so ignorantly and wrongly ignored.

It's the age-old 'belt-drive is best' brainwashing that AoS and I are slowly but surely eroding!

Marco.