doesn't anyone have an opinion

[StanleyB]

Hi Jerry, yep been hanging around for a while on some of the high-end manufacturers forums so get inputs on what folks are looking for sound wise in a high-end DAC. When I tell them my price they wet themselves laughing... But the last laugh has been on me with the very good responses after purchase. Naim even emailed me with a free sample request... Thanks for the eBay link by the way. Took less than 15 minutes to be snapped up after that...

Coming back to the original request though: a Naim guy in the US mentioned to me that his wife upgraded the living room furniture and changed the lay out, resulting in a new lease of life in his Naim. He wrote that bass in the softer chairs is far more intense on his piles. Double bass cuts across his chest like a surgeon's scalpel. And guitar strings sound more like a friendly no holds barred Mexican bar entertainer eager to show off his skills, instead of a professional musicians under pressure to get it absolutely perfect in an expensive studio setup.
Fancy the wife finding a solution with less than U$K spent.

[Marco]

Hanging around on the Naim forum, eh Stanley? You seem to have survived the ordeal and escaped unscathed

Seriously though, good news on the sample request. I hope it develops into something lucrative for you. Oh, and I hope your good lady is on the mend now

Nice to see you back and posting.

Marco.

[StanleyB]

Hi Marco, the missus is looking far better now thanks.

I had to go underground for a while in order to work on a few affordable solutions to some audio product problems in general. Trust the economy to do a nose dive just now...

Yep, the bad ol' dayz being chained and gagged in a tent are now just mere distant memories. And the mistresses have finally left once I cancelled their credit cards.

[tfarney]

I'll add my vote to speakers and furniture-moving !

Seriously, I think speakers are 90% of the equation, and if I were looking to upgrade my sound, that's where I would start. Even if I loved my current speakers, I'd consider a second set from a completely different design point of view before I would spend the same money on upgrading already excellent electronics.

On the furniture -- well, the fellow who got an upgrade when his wife moved the chairs got quite a lucky break, but I'm convinced that a lot of very expensive sound systems are wasted in bad room acoustics. Analysis and proper room treatment would probably gain you a lot more sound improvement that a few thousand in components.

Tim

[Steve Toy]

you have to go and listen to some different systems, speakers make the most difference, try and find a pair of speakers you like and then build a system around them,

I disagree but I can see how dealers (not necessarily yourself) could derive more sales of boxes after the speakers were purchased .

Speakers are the very last component in the audio chain and they can only do what they are told. They may make the biggest difference in the sound you get in your room but the least difference in how much music you'll actually hear.

Especially if you are going down the valve route I'd begin with the amp. Once you've found one that pleases you in terms of how it portrays the music you can then find a speaker that it can drive to your satisfaction. Your favourite speaker with that as your starting point may be a complete bitch of a load for what would otherwise be your choice of amp.

I used to believe in source first as this is where the music begins its journey within your hi-fi system. Certainly with turntables there really is no substitute for good solid engineering and that is not usually cheap, so with a sytem based on playing vinyl a decent turntable should be both where you start and where you spend the most money.

With digital sources it isn't so clear cut in favour of the source-first principle. Whilst spending money on decent digital playback equipment does pay dividends in terms of how much music you'll actually hear emerging from your speakers, I think the balance in this instance is split more evenly between (digital) source, amp and speakers.

Ultimately, what will make or break your system though will be how well you set it up in your room. Ancilliaries like cabling and isolation/support make a big difference to the end result. Above all, aesthetics MUST always come second to sonics...

[purite audio]

I can't agree I believe you have to find a pair of speakers you really like and that like your room, and I agree with Tim that moving furniture / acoustic 'treatments' can bring a huge benefit, until you have the speakers how can you pssibly know which amp will drive them properly.

[Marco]

I think there's definitely merit in Keith's approach, but as usual with audio it's far from as simple as that.

I agree that speaker/room interaction is the single biggest sonic consideration when choosing a hi-fi system and that optimising things here gives the greatest rewards.

However as far as building a hi-fi system is concerned, amps and speakers should be chosen TOGETHER. A synergistic 'marriage' between the two sonically and electrically is vitally important if a system is to produce believable and enjoyable music, and so one cannot realistically be purchased before another. This is one of the reasons, for example, why active speakers can work so well.

Of course, as Steve says, there's bugger all point buying the best amp and speakers if they (and the whole system) are not set up optimally - and I mean optimally.

Too many people attempt to blend hi-end systems into a domestic environment (shoving speakers and equipment into corners of the room, coiling up cables, plonking gear on sideboards, etc, to keep it all 'out of the way' because of 'wifey's' demands) at the expense of performance and as such it's impossible to get even a half decent sound because the system is hobbled from the word go.

What's the most important aspect of a hi-fi system then? Set-up, SET-UP, SET-UP.

Otherwise buy a plastic boom-box from Tescos and be done with it!

There's simply no point in buying the best speakers (or the best anything) if the set-up is compromised.

Marco.

[purite audio]

If you mean 'setting up ' your turntable correctly , cart arm everything level, supported securely then I absolutely agree , speakers placed for the optimal sound , given real world constraints , doors fireplaces windows etc again I agree, but aren't hi-fi racks no more than FOO?

[Marco]

In a word, 'no'. But I'm not turning this into 'stand wars'

The fact is not enough people pay proper attention to set-up with hi-fi systems - they concentrate too much on spending money on boxes and speakers and ignore almost everything else.

The rest of what you say is of course correct.

Marco.

[purite audio]

Marco not my intention at all to start a 'stand war' but the prices of some hi-fi racks, just ridiculous imho, personally I would rather have an attractive solid wood table, I am sure stands for smaller speakers can make a difference. Regards Keith.