doesn't anyone have an opinion

[mistygreenandblue]

That a very refreshing attitude, Gary, and bodes well for your hi-fi happiness in the future.

I wouldn't be too harsh on Misty, as I'm sure he's only commenting from experience on what he's heard so far, but as you say all valve amps are not the same - in fact there is far more variations in presentation with valve gear than there is with solid-state stuff.

Marco.

Well you are absolutely correct Marco, I am commenting only on what I've heard so far, even to the point where I cannot involve a valve amp that I own, but as yet haven't fired up....What is interesting is the desire of others to place words into my mouth....I cannot recall ever saying all valve amps sound alike....just the ones I deem to be sensible money don't reproduce the bite or edge I want from rock music....and that has nothing to do with bass power, or dynamics, or soundstaging or whatever....

[mistygreenandblue]

the high cap barely made a difference at all so 90% of advice on naim forum to buy hicap was rubbish for me at this stage as the rest of my system isn't capable of really showing difference yet.

Regards Gary

Ok, well I've bounced over to the Naim forum to have a read of your latest postings - mainly to try and get some further info on the above point....are you saying that the hicap barely made any difference on your 102 pre amp? - running into your 180 power amp....Is this what you are saying?

[gary]

mistygreenandblue

Thats what we found we first tryed HiCap on my system not any real noticable difference then we tryed changing 180 for 250.2 and highcap and this was better then we changed preamp to 202/highcap with my 180 phenominal difference we then added 250 and all of us agreed it was too revealing and made the system too bright so much so that you wanted to turn it back down we landed up going back to 202/hi/180 and just listened to cds for ages the pre amp was by far the biggest improvement the 202 makes the 102 sound like a toy

PS I have went back and re read your post from earlier and I apologise for putting words in your mouth as was your comment I think I picked you up wrong.(And I had just had comments from my brother to the effect that valve amps did not have the punch of SS ) so I say again sorry my diatribe should have been directed at a different person. Anyway My musical tastes are more easy listening than hard rock so not sure bite is what I am after as such so valves may well be the route I go down I have yet to hear them so I am really looking forward to hearing marcos amps

[gary]

Out o curiosity Mistygreenandblue what system do you run now and what have you listened too recentely that you can make comparisons too

[mistygreenandblue]

mistygreenandblue

Thats what we found we first tryed HiCap on my system not any real noticable difference then we tryed changing 180 for 250.2 and highcap and this was better then we changed preamp to 202/highcap with my 180 phenominal difference we then added 250 and all of us agreed it was too revealing and made the system too bright so much so that you wanted to turn it back down we landed up going back to 202/hi/180 and just listened to cds for ages the pre amp was by far the biggest improvement the 202 makes the 102 sound like a toy

PS I have went back and re read your post from earlier and I apologise for putting words in your mouth as was your comment I think I picked you up wrong.(And I had just had comments from my brother to the effect that valve amps did not have the punch of SS ) so I say again sorry my diatribe should have been directed at a different person. Anyway My musical tastes are more easy listening than hard rock so not sure bite is what I am after as such so valves may well be the route I go down I have yet to hear them so I am really looking forward to hearing marcos amps

Hello Gary,

No apologies needed, but thank you all the same. I often wonder if I should refrain from posting on various fora simply because I seem to lack the ability of making clear in my postings what is in my head...to me it seems to read clearly, but obviously not so to others, and when it ends up like that, then it causes more problems than it's worth...

Interesting comment re the 102 v the 202, I'm pondering letting Avondale turbo charge either a 32.5 or a 102 I have, various folks who have either heard, or indeed own such modded pre's say the 102 can be a 52 beater in such a form....I've no actual first hand knowledge, so can only go on the various positive feedback from those who have...Did the 202 make the changes to your system that you wanted, or was it *just* a step in the right direction?

I've always found that adding a hicap makes an improvement (that's using 32.5's / 42.5's and the 102) mind you I have awful mains (a small industrial unit nearby) big difference between working hours, and down time, so maybe p/s's would make a bigger difference with my poor supply, or maybe that's neither here nor there?

Since the early 80's I've bounced back and forth with Naim gear, but I still haven't found anything (within my budget) that will do it all for me, so I've arrived at my present day situation of the two systems...which is still a work in progress...

To be honest, if I wasn't such a metalhead at times, then the Audio Innovations gear would have ticked most of the boxes....indeed one of their small integrated amps ( series 300 mk1) was a little gem...suffered in the bass region when pushed, but was so full of life...I still have that amp, needs a service, cause a few parts have burnt out, but I'll never get rid of it...

I hope you do find the answer to your questions with Marco's amps, for me sadly it seems to be either a pools win or twin systems...

[mistygreenandblue]

Out o curiosity Mistygreenandblue what system do you run now and what have you listened too recentely that you can make comparisons too

Hello Gary, I'll pm you the details....still a tad wary of posting details out on a public fora...old habits die hard...

[Steve Toy]

Go read my post again Steven...I never said valve amps cannot do dynamics, or indeed reproduce decent bass (border patrol etc) what I said was the ones I've heard at sensible money take away the 'bite' and 'edge' that I want from hard rock and metal...

I'm a bit late I know. I've been rather busy this weekend

In addition to dynamics I should have pointed out that a good valve amp can do the requisite leading edge attack/transient response to really satisfy with rock programme.

I come from a very flat earth background having familiarised myself hands-on with the entire Olive Naim range a few years back. In my own system I've owned a Naim CD5 (with and without a Flatcap) and a CDX both into quite a few Densen boxes for amplification including the B-330 power amp.

www.densen.dk

PR&T is very much a pre-requisite for any system of mine and going to valves for me was about building on existing virtues rather than a sea change from raw edge excitement to pipe 'n slippers. I love the Naim sound but these days nothing below a CDS 555/NAC 552/NAP 500 would do it for me as everything below that level sounds a little too rounded-off for my tastes.

Either the TD/AOS amp of mine is exceptional value for money or Anthony is a genius. Or both. It has already been described as being "like a very good transistor amp."

[mistygreenandblue]

I'm a bit late I know. I've been rather busy this weekend

In addition to dynamics I should have pointed out that a good valve amp can do the requisite leading edge attack/transient response to really satisfy with rock programme.

I come from a very flat earth background having familiarised myself hands-on with the entire Olive Naim range a few years back. In my own system I've owned a Naim CD5 (with and without a Flatcap) and a CDX both into quite a few Densen boxes for amplification including the B-330 power amp.

www.densen.dk

PR&T is very much a pre-requisite for any system of mine and going to valves for me was about building on existing virtues rather than a sea change from raw edge excitement to pipe 'n slippers. I love the Naim sound but these days nothing below a CDS 555/NAC 552/NAP 500 would do it for me as everything below that level sounds a little too rounded-off for my tastes.

Either the TD/AOS amp of mine is exceptional value for money or Anthony is a genius. Or both. It has already been described as being "like a very good transistor amp."

Hi Steven,

Even later reply for me. Forum break time n' all....

"rounded-off" is a great description for how I feel about valve amps (the ones that have 'my kind of' price tags anyway...) that I've either owned or heard to date...Kevin's were a whole different ball game however...I'm hoping the A30 bucks that trend...

I must add to this conversation that I don't feel the term 'pipe and slippers' is what I feel about the valve amps I have commented on in this thread, none of them have ever caused me to drift off into the land of nod, but that 'bite' has always been missing for me when playback involves metal / heavy rock...

Anyway, these days while DIY hell continues my listening is done via a £30 portable...Hey ho...