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Thread: What value is placed on the absence of UK servicing when considering a brand?

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Southern England

    Posts: 2,990
    I'm Howard.

    Default What value is placed on the absence of UK servicing when considering a brand?

    Let me set the scene. One of the reasons I gave up representing STAX equipment, at the time I was the global #1 for the brand was not, as is sometimes reported, the unreliability of the Omega-2 earspeakers and certain batches of the 717, but that on a number of occasions, the defective items had to be returned to Japan for remedial work, sometimes under warranty.

    Quite naturally, my customers who under warranty found they might be without their very expensive equipment for some weeks because of the inability to rectify the fault in the UK, were aggrieved. And so was i. The problems were all eventually sorted, but by that time I was sick of the whole thing. And that was that.

    Anyway, two new situations recently has caused me to reflect further on this.

    Mark Levinson:

    First, I received a call from a person who sought my advice re what seemed at first sight an extraordinary bargain on a piece of very expensive Mark Levinson AV equipment. The caller had responded to an advert placed by one of the only 4 remaining UK Levinson retailers. The advert read as follows:

    "Mark Levinson Model 40 HD/ AV processor/pre-amplifier As new, factory sealed boxes. Cost new in excess £30,000 on offer for only (Pounds Sterling) 14995"

    The caller spoke to the retailer, initially thinking (so he tells me) that this meant that ML was vanishing from the UK. The retailer assured him that wasn’t the case. The reason for the massive saving, and the sealed boxes, was that under warranty this equipment had failed and it was (apparently) beyond the capability of the UK service agent to fix it. So, at no doubt buttock-clenching cost, was returned to the USA, and then back to the UK.

    At this point the caller asked what would happen if it went wrong again after the (what he felt) was the very short 6 month warranty. Apparently it could still not be serviced in the UK. The caller asked my opinion.

    I was astonished that what was formerly one of the world’s leading audiophile brands could not be serviced by the importer. My advice was that despite the massive saving, he should walk away. The opportunity, as I perceived it, for massive bills outside of warranty, plus the fact that having come back from the makers it still only had (apparently) a 6 month warranty, was I felt a tacit lack of confidence on the part of the seller and/or the importer and/or the maker.

    NAGRA

    Shortly after that, a tale of woe regarding the owner and his unreliable yet top-of-the line Nagra pre/power combination came to my attention. You can read it here: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=48752

    What really shocked me was the statement by one of the contributors to the thread as follows: “Lee Hi, well RT sends everything back to Switzerland ,no mater how trivial, what about letting a UK service engineer have a lok”

    So here’s another importer, of massively expensive kit, not in a position to offer, it seems, quick UK based service on state-of-the-art equipment.

    And so I ruminated as follows.

    A Lexus car does not have to go back to Japan for fixing. Nor does a Canon camera. Nor does a washing machine, and so on. There may be exceptions with other state-of-the-art consumables such as £50k+ wrist watches – but I can’t think of many.

    So my questions are these.

    1. Should ‘civilians’ enquire as to what the importer / distributor’s policy is regarding repair work i.e. can all service work be carried out in the UK and if not, why not?

    2. Should magazines (who always and vociferously claim to have the end-user’s interests at the very heart of what they do) be persuaded to include a brief statement re the state of UK servicing on any item they review?

    As always. I seek comments and where appropriate will be happy to respond to those comments.

    Thank you

    HP.

    ---//---
    Last edited by Neil McCauley; 10-06-2008 at 11:56.
    Well, hello.

  2. #2

    Default

    It would be interesting to know whether RT are sending everything back to Switzerland because Nagra require them to do so or because they can't be troubled to employ a decent engineer. In that case, what about Spectral and Accuphase ?
    Hans

    MBL 1531 -> Allnic L-4000 -> Audiolab 8000S used as power amp only -> Quad 2805. Cables: Transparent Ultra

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Southern England

    Posts: 2,990
    I'm Howard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Togil View Post
    It would be interesting to know whether RT are sending everything back to Switzerland because Nagra require them to do so or because they can't be troubled to employ a decent engineer. In that case, what about Spectral and Accuphase ?
    I doubt if Mr Purnell (founder of RT Services) would be inclined to talk about this to me. However he might be interested in issuing a statement to the founder and/or moderators? Anyone fancy a go?

    My guess is that he might be interested in offering his perspective on this issue. I've found him to be forthright, articulate and cogent.

    http://www.rtsaudio.co.uk/contacts.html

    info@rtsaudio.co.uk

    Tel: 01235 810 455
    Well, hello.

  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: That London ( North)

    Posts: 1,193
    I'm Keith.

    Default

    Nagra has/used to have their 'pro' service centre in St Albans.

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Southern England

    Posts: 2,990
    I'm Howard.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purite audio View Post
    Nagra has/used to have their 'pro' service centre in St Albans.
    My understanding, based on a long interview with Mr Purnell some years back is that Nagra Pro and Nagra Domestic are entirely separate in the UK. Might have changed though.

    Considering the market penetration that Nagra Pro have achieved in the news and film industries, I very much doubt if pro users would tolerate a draconian return-to-Switzerland regime.

    ---//---
    Well, hello.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Nairn

    Posts: 102
    I'm Nick.

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    I know that RT use a chap in Surrey for Accuphase repair work. My Krell KSA-100 went to him last year, very helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Southern England

    Posts: 2,990
    I'm Howard.

    Default

    Hopefully we'll get back on topic at some point. Meanwhile ...

    My questions are these.

    1. Should ‘civilians’ enquire as to what the importer / distributor’s policy is regarding repair work i.e. can all service work be carried out in the UK and if not, why not?

    2. Should magazines (who always and vociferously claim to have the end-user’s interests at the very heart of what they do) be persuaded to include a brief statement re the state of UK servicing on any item they review?

    As always. I seek comments and where appropriate will be happy to respond to those comments.

    Thank you

    HP.
    Well, hello.

  8. #8

    Default

    I should certainly enquire from the dealer what would happen to equipment if it needed repair before purchasing equipment. Certain items i would probably prefer to go back to the official repair centre, eg my Quad ESLs.
    Hans

    MBL 1531 -> Allnic L-4000 -> Audiolab 8000S used as power amp only -> Quad 2805. Cables: Transparent Ultra

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: gone

    Posts: 11,519
    I'm gone.

    Default

    I must admit that I don't really consider the UK serviceability of kit when I buy it (I buy used almost exclusively). But I now have strong evidence that I am in a very small minority on this.

    I bought (used) a Burmester CD006 cdp. A superb sounding machine, imho. But, box-swapper that I am , when it came time for me to move on (after about a year) I could gather no interest whatsoever in this wonderful machine. Reason - "what if it went wrong?". Answer: It might have to go back to Germany. In the end I managed to arrange a swap deal for an Ayre cdp (which sounded appalling compared to the twice-the-rrp Burmester, imo). I then sold the Ayre on for what I had hoped to get for the Burmester.

    So it seems that most folks do indeed care about local serviceability issues, even if I am happy to take the risk!
    .

  10. #10
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Newport

    Posts: 391
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    I would expect high end gear, such as those mentioned, to come with a considerable warranty. At least 2 years, if not a bit more. The car analogy is a good one and if a company like Kia can give 7 year warranties on things with moving components in then surely an amplifier costing more than double a Kia should come with decent warranty as well.

    I would also expect ht eretailer selling me the gear to make it obvious where the kit would be repaired in the case of a problem, and that in theory it may mean being without it for a number of weeks. I would also expect them to supply something to in it's place for the duration although this may be just a cheap equivalent to allow you to listen to music in the mean time.

    Certainly at the price companies like Mark Levinson and Nagra fetch in this country I would expect it. My local Nissan dealer would loan me a car if I had to be without mine for a couple of days.

    I've been very lucky with kit - although I don't buy as much as Jerry, but I do check the reputation of the company out before I purchase to check if there are any horror stories out there about reliability and servicability.

    I didn't buy a Dynavector cart a few years ago after a work colleague had two that pretty much fell apart on him and there have been similar incidents reported on Zerogain and PFM by more than one forum memeber. Ok these were the cheaper end of the range but it has still stopped me from regarding them when thinking of a future purchase. A similar thing also happened with Benz carts just recently after a bit of a horror story over on the Wam. I still don't trust Funk turntable, although I like them, after a horror show at a delaer with the old Pink Triangle Tarentella a few years ago.

    Some of the money asked in this country for high end gear, should result in much better service from the people importing it. If they can't maintain it here than the manufacturer should really look at whether to deal with them as it will sully their name here.
    Last edited by griffo104; 11-06-2008 at 08:25.

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