Sony Playstation 1.

[Marco]

Hi Leo,

Is that what's used in the Beresford or the Playstation?

Marco.

[BajaGringo]

Oh Well. It's what pleases MY ears that matters most to me

That is something that I believe in as well and don't always follow "conventional thought" with my audio gear / setup. etc.

That having been said, it is a much more progressive group here on AoS than AK where (as you correctly noted) the main focus is on old school HiFi. I have learned much on this very subject of digital in the past few weeks here. I would suggest you consider taking a page from my book - listen a bit to the discussion and read some of the threads here before forming any final conclusions.

There have been some great posts throughout the threads and a couple by Marco that I actually copied down just to do some research and think about over a Cadiallac Margarita or two.

Just my dos centavos.

[leo]

Hi Leo,

Is that what's used in the Beresford or the Playstation?

Marco.

Hi Marco,

The PCM1716 was used in the Beresford I listened to here, I think the Playstation uses one of the cheaper AK chips

[Marco]

Ah, I see. I think the Beresford is excellent value for money but I was somewhat under-whelmed when I heard it recently. That was without its separate PSU, though, which apparently makes a big difference.

If the Playstation uses an even cheaper DAC chip then together with its awful switch-mode power supply one wonders how people can think it sounds good

Marco.

[leo]

The Net Audio Sonance also uses that 1716 chip (I also have one of those on loan from a friend) , its pretty much maxed out but tbh I find any unit using this chip to have the typical digital signature and a really lousy midrange
Stick in the diy dac unit using the TDA1541A S2 and it knocks you onto your backside

[leo]

If the Playstation uses an even cheaper DAC chip then together with its awful switch-mode power supply one wonders how people can think it sounds good

Marco.

Its when they finally get a taste of something that is actually very good quality this poorer performance is realized

[Marco]

Yep, I totally agree. It's the old 'frame of reference' thing again.

It's like with wine... You can taste a £5 bottle of Chianti and think it's excellent, but it's not until you try a £20 bottle that you appreciate the difference and can judge how ordinary in fact the £5 bottle is!

Mind you if you're used to drinking Lambrini then I guess anything tastes good

The Playstation 1 isn't *that* bad as a CD player, and I'm sure is perfectly acceptable in the right system, but I feel it's important that people don't get too carried away and think they've got a high-end CDP on the cheap, because it's a long way off from being that. Just accept it for what it is and enjoy it.

Marco.

P.S Baja, thanks for the compliment. We're all learning from each other all the time with hi-fi, including me. I'm certainly enjoying the input from you guys from across the pond. The day that you think you know it all is the day you need to take a serious reality check!

[Phil Bishop]

I am interested in two comments, one from Marco and one from Leo. Marco - what is the separate PSU for Beresford - I have not heard of this? Leo - what is the DIY DAC using TDA1541A S2? Please do let me know about these.

Personally, I have been very pleased with Beresford linked to an old Arcam delta 170 transport - for a combined cost of £200ish it sounds great IMHO. However, I would love to hear the DAC Leo refers to or similar - how do I do this?

On the more general subject of digital source value for money, on which there has been much debate in various threads I would add the following. I don't have a "high end" system. However, when comparing £1K CD set up to a £15 jobbie from Asda (particularly via a DAC) the differences were subtle. However, i recently sold a pair of cheap Wharfedale Diamond speakers for £30 or so and they sounded HORRIBLE in relation to my £500 Epos speakers. So this leads me to believe there is potentially better value for money upgrading speakers and possibly amps than digital sources....BUT, I do take the point that only a better system may reveal the better sources, etc.

BajaGringo is right - this is an enlightened Forum. My quest on my modest budget is to seek out those bargains, those older classics, etc. Yes Marco, I am still keeping an eye out for the Sony CDPs! Phil.

[combwork]

I would suggest you consider taking a page from my book - listen a bit to the discussion and read some of the threads here before forming any final conclusions.

Gladly In fact my problem with Hi-Fi had been a gadfly approach, hooking various things together in the vain hope that I'd find some kind of audio nirvana. Thanks to free shipping (long story; Fedex owed me one) I bought a non working Pioneer SX-1980 from a seller in Houston, then had it sent to a top class tech to have it fully overhauled before getting it delivered over the water to Scotland. The Pioneer was to be the centerpiece of my system; the hunt was on to find a pair of vintage speakers to do it justice then by luck (they were on my doorstep), found a pair of Quad ESL57s. Enough people warned me about what a horrible mis-match the SX1980 > ESL57 would be, so I took a chance and bought cheap a 'non working' NAD3020B from a bulk seller on Ebay. Turned out it worked fine; all someone had done was push in the tape monitor switch. The Quads had been in dry storage for some 20 years or so, so again following advice I connected them to the mains and left them alone for three days, after which I connected everything up, and at the flick of a switch changed everything............... A solid state amp made in the late 1980s driving a pair of speakers made the year I started Secondary school. Beautiful, but not making use of the Pioneer so again, after asking advice, I connected the Pioneer pre-out to the NAD power-in.

That was the combination that had me routed to my chair, all thoughts of reading a book while the music played forgotten. To be truthful it was a cumbersome setup; 70 Lbs dead weight of top quality Pioneer receiver hooked to a 'little' NAD driving Quad ESLs but it worked. Then events took over (again); the rocking of the washing machine turned out not to be because it was out of balance, but because underneath the lino on which it was standing, the floor was rotting away. The only thing I had to sell to find the kind of money needed was...........the Pioneer SX-1980. The deed was done, so for now I'm back with the NAD Pre/power > ESL57s. But maybe not for long. Thanks to an add in the classified section of Hi-Fi world, I am about to become the proud owner of a pair of B & W DM70s.

Do you see where this is going Baja Gringo? I've been listening, learning and experimenting most of my adult life. Not always to good effect, but there's always room for one more experiment, even if it does involve another screwdriver with the tip burned off. I may well end up back in the world of valves, my first 'Hi-Fi' was a Williamson power amp driving an old 12" speaker of unknown make but this was back in the 1970's when I ran a small shop (named Sounds Peculiar just on the edge of Southend on Sea). Things change because that's what things do; it's their nature. You learn, you forget; you blow things up then learn again and eventually some of the information sticks.

I'm sorry if I've come on a bit strong about Play-stations being the 8th wonder of the world, but if all else fails you can at least use them for their intended purpose

[BajaGringo]

We are on the same page my friend. Most of my experience in this arena has come via trial and error - just sitting down in front of the system and deciding for myself if it worked or not. That is something that was easier to do in the "old world" as it basically just involved hooking up RCA cables and deciding how far off the floor/away from the walls you wanted your speakers. Today we are interfacing our computers into our audio systems and that has opened up a can of worms so large and diverse that I have really had to "go back to school" to try and keep up. It is a lot of fun and if you saw my setup you would see that even us old buzzards can get into the new digital phase...

Do what I do, pour a cold drink, put on some tunes and listen to these guys here who really know what they are doing. They have taught me a lot on the subject and I continue to learn...