How do we do it?

[dave2010]

A few months ago I went to a music evening at which some CDs were played. The amplifier was one of the best I've ever heard - Musical Fidelity A5, the speakers should have been good - Ruark floor standers, yet overall the system didn't sound great. IIR the CD player was a standard Marantz CD67 (might have been a CD 63 - but I think it was the 67). My own system sounds far better - and others have agreed.

I've also had other experiences in the last few years. One was of some Tannoy speakers which seemed to be letting the system it was installed in down (not mine) quite badly. When replaced with some much newer speakers (I think they were Monitor Audio) the overall sound improved tremendously. I was pretty sure years before the upgrade that it was the speakers which were letting the side down. After the upgrade it has become one of the nicest domestic systems I've heard, and you can sometimes hear where most of the individual instruments are in a recording. It also does well on material from LP or digitised from LP.

So, my question is, how do I know that the amplifier in the recently experienced system was actually much better than mine, given that the overall sound quality was substantially worse. How do we do this? Can we detect something in the sound we hear which enables us to associate quality problems to particular pieces of kit, or conversely, to indentify quality features even if there are aspects of a system which lets it down.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think so. I think I can do this - at least sometimes.

[Codifus]

I would answer that by saying "you don't"

Only experience will give you the answer, and my experience has shown that differences in speaker are significantly greater than differences between amplifiers. Once you get some decent, competent amplifiers, the diferences in sound between them will be subtle, even if the price differnce is of these amplifiers is from $400 to $2000 or more. How dramatically different can an amplifier be? It is a simple gain device.

CD

[The Grand Wazoo]

I would answer that by saying "you don't"

I'd echo that too. I always wondered how folks can listen to a system made up of components they've never heard together, often never at all, & be able to say that they heard one of them & liked it.

How's that work then?

[magiccarpetride]

How dramatically different can an amplifier be? It is a simple gain device.

CD

In my personal experience, differences between amplifiers can be phenomenally huge. Like night and day, for example. Amplification could be the most critical component in your audio chain, for all I know. (duck!)

[John]

Its important to bring equipment back into your own system before deciding if it works for you or not as they are a lot of variables

[John]

In my personal experience, differences between amplifiers can be phenomenally huge. Like night and day, for example. Amplification could be the most critical component in your audio chain, for all I know. (duck!)

Its about synergy one amp might well in one set up but not in another Trouble is we look for absolute truths but there is not that many

[dave2010]

David

How dramatically different can an amplifier be? It is a simple gain device.

In theory yes, but loudspeakers don't usually present a resistive load. The interaction between the amplifier and the speaker might cause some problems. Also the damping factor can come in - though admittedly normally only with long cables - and this can mess up the bass response if compromised.

There is the evidence of one's ears - not only mine. If substituting one amp for another in a system gives a different sound, then that tends to discount the argument that all amps are more or less equal.

Lastly, what about the valve afficionados? Perhaps in the audible frequency range some valve amps have very similar response figures to solid state - so presumably all the tube enthusiasts are wrong by your hypothesis.

[John]

Amps are certainly not the same but hear it within your own system first

[Themis]

So, my question is, how do I know that the amplifier in the recently experienced system was actually much better than mine, given that the overall sound quality was substantially worse. How do we do this? Can we detect something in the sound we hear which enables us to associate quality problems to particular pieces of kit, or conversely, to indentify quality features even if there are aspects of a system which lets it down.

Hi Dave, my opinion is that, after having listened carefully to hundreds of combinations, the brain starts classifying certain things :

Depending on the type of speakers and the brand (or the country of origin). Most speaker brands keep a "consistent" sonic signature. If you listen to a few models, chance is a model you never heard of shares most of its "brothers'" characteristics.
Same happens about the amplifiers : the type of amp (class, brand, valve/ss/hybrid) and the brand provide some clues.
The room is important, too. That's why the best tests are made at home, in a well-known environment.

Now, of course, as you say, you can't *absolutely* be sure of which component is responsible for most of the overall result, but... a couple of permutations and you're fixed : you just need to know what you're looking for.

[dave2010]

Dimitri

My hunch for the most recent system with problems was on balance that the problem was the CD player. However it might not have been. It might have been the cables, or there could have been a mismatch between the CD player and the amp. Tricky really, as I still had the feeling that the amp and the speakers were fine. Maybe the quality feel I thought was present came from the speakers, though I still think it was the amp.

My suspicions about the CD player could have been completely off beam - I was making assumptions about the age of the kit.
One problem might have been that as the kit had been moved, that something wasn't set up right - e.g poor cable connection, dry joints somewhere, etc. The sound wasn't particularly characteristic of a failing CD player, even an old one. It sounded a bit like overload distortion, but the amp should have coped, and the volume levels weren't loud. Maybe the CD player was causing input overload distortion to the MF amp - though I find that a bit surprising.

With the other system with the Tannoys I suspected for years that the speakers were problematic, and this was finally confirmed when the owner changed them. I had nothing to do with prompting him to make the change, as I (and perhaps others) just politely ignored the graunching distortion sounds coming from the gradually crumbling cones. Possiblly he didn't even realise, but I'm sure he likes the new speakers better.

This of course raises another "pseudo ethical" question. If you can tell that someone else's system has problems, should you keep quiet about it?