The bug has definitely bitten me!

[gazcarts]

Hi all,

I'm back again with another update on my adventures with vinyl. I apologise in advance for being such a novice, but I hope you don't mind my occasional ramble?

You may recall that I recently acquired an Akai AP-306C from Ebay, followed not long after by a Croft Acoustics RIAA valve phono amplifier. The Croft sounds superb, easily bettering the Lehmann Black Cube SE I already had.

You may also recall that one of my first posts was inquiring about a Tag Mclaren PPA20 to match the rest of my system. Well, it was Sod's Law that, on the day I took delivery of the Croft, a chap on Hifi Wigwam emailed me to tell me he was selling his PPA20. This is the same chap who failed to sell the PPA20 on 2 occasions in 2009, but by the time I'd seen his ads, he'd given up trying to sell it and had decided to keep it. A change of circumstances means he no longer needs to the PPA20, hence the email.

This is all getting very expensive, as you can imagine, but my excuse is that I can always sell the phono amps I don't need. Well, the PPA20 arrived today and I connected it to my system, currently running the Akai (the Technics is temporarily retired as I like the auto return of the Akai). I wasn't expecting it to beat the Croft, especially given the recommendations I've received on the forum, so I was astounded to find that it sounds better than the Croft. More detail, wider and deeper soundstage, more realism. I'm totally blown away.

As I said earlier, I'm a total novice, so I'm sure more experienced members will probably disagree with my findings based on their own experience. However, I notice a significant improvement. Ok, I only have a Dynavector 10x5 and an old Akai TT, but I really am impressed. I'm also very happy with the sound I'm hearing and don't feel like I need to upgrade anything else, although today I also took delivery of a mint Fons CQ30 which some of you may have seen on Ebay. I need to acquire an SME tonearm for that (or an armboard that will take the Jelco arm I have) before I can give that a try.

Another advantage of the Tag is its flexibility. I can connect 2 turntables with different cartridges, which is lucky, as I now have 3 turntables!

Maybe it's time to stop buying equipment and start buying more LPs?!

Apologies about the long post by the way

Best wishes

[Alex_UK]

As I said earlier, I'm a total novice, so I'm sure more experienced members will probably disagree with my findings based on their own experience. However, I notice a significant improvement.

They'd better bloody not! Who's ears are they?

Glad that the TAG is doing it for you, if you think it is better in YOUR system in YOUR room with YOUR music and to YOUR ears, then you are right, and everyone else, whatever their experience, is WRONG!

And anyway, there are a lot of fans of Audiolab/TAG on here, very respected kit.

And yes - my philosophy is always spend 10x the system cost on music!

[DSJR]

Alex, if it's wrong, it's wrong, whatever personal opinions one may have..

If the TAG phono-amp is perceived better than the Croft, then I'm not too surprised tbh. If this unit is based heavily on the old Audiolab phono stage, i can conform that a lot of careful design went into it..

HOWEVER!!!!

The Akai deck almost certainly is a bottleneck on LP reproduction and the Fons won't be any better I'm afraid, as the CQ30 had MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction. I'd rather have a Thorens TD160 I think. The Croft may just be reproducing the Akai better perhaps..

Time will tell if I'm talking out of my backside yet again or not.....

[gazcarts]

The Croft may just be reproducing the Akai better perhaps..

Dave, am I correct in thinking you're suggesting the Croft sounds worse because it reproduces the flaws of the Akai better than the Tag?? In other words, the Tag "magically" makes the Akai sound better than it really is?

I have little experience of high end turntables, cartridges and valve amplification. What I do know is that the Akai isn't far behind my Technics SL1200 fitted with a rebadged Jelco SA-250ST and the same cartridge. The Akai cost me just over 50 quid. Of course, I could spend several hundred pounds more on an external power supply and new bearing for the Technics, but would I notice a HUGE difference, or would I then also have to invest in an expensive LO MC cartridge to really hear the benefits? The Akai already outclasses my £1100 Tag CD transport, and I'm sure the Fons will be even better. It's not the only TT with a ringing platter; the Technics suffers from that problem too, hence why we invest in decent mats.

I've read some fairly good reviews on the Fons, and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Am I better sticking with an SME 3009 arm or should I look at alternatives, assuming I can get a suitable armboard?

By the way, if there's anyone in the Aberdeen area with what they consider to be a high end turntable and system, I'd love to hear a demo, because otherwise I have no idea what I'm actually missing.

Many thanks

[chris@panteg]

Hi Gary ' if it sounds better ' it is better, as a certain Scottish chap once famously said .

trust your ears and your own judgment, at the end of the day you have to live with it .

[DSJR]

Dave, am I correct in thinking you're suggesting the Croft sounds worse because it reproduces the flaws of the Akai better than the Tag?? In other words, the Tag "magically" makes the Akai sound better than it really is?

I have little experience of high end turntables, cartridges and valve amplification. What I do know is that the Akai isn't far behind my Technics SL1200 fitted with a rebadged Jelco SA-250ST and the same cartridge. The Akai cost me just over 50 quid. Of course, I could spend several hundred pounds more on an external power supply and new bearing for the Technics, but would I notice a HUGE difference, or would I then also have to invest in an expensive LO MC cartridge to really hear the benefits? The Akai already outclasses my £1100 Tag CD transport, and I'm sure the Fons will be even better. It's not the only TT with a ringing platter; the Technics suffers from that problem too, hence why we invest in decent mats.

I've read some fairly good reviews on the Fons, and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Am I better sticking with an SME 3009 arm or should I look at alternatives, assuming I can get a suitable armboard?

By the way, if there's anyone in the Aberdeen area with what they consider to be a high end turntable and system, I'd love to hear a demo, because otherwise I have no idea what I'm actually missing.

Many thanks

I'm mis-understanding a little and forgot you've done up the Akai a bit (?)

The techie platter ringing is NOTHING on the Fons, even those with stuck-on rubber discs/rings.

The Croft *may* respond a bit to tube-rolling. Don't sell it on just yet.

Like I said, if the TAG is based on the previous Audiolab offering, it should be superb by any standards. if you prefer it, fine - don't tell anyone but I'm currently using a Dada recapped and bandwidth/gain adjusted Quad 33 as a line buffer for my headphone amp and it's superb now (awaiting the X-10D this afternoon..)

[pure sound]

MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction.

Hmmm, sounds familiar!

[Themis]

I'm with Dave on this one.

But the overall result is down to personal taste, especially if you're novice, Gary. I don't mean this in a pejorative way at all, but we all need some kind of "reference" to decide what is "better" or "closer".
On the other hand, this is totally secondary and unimportant. Don't spoil your pleasure by listening too carefully other people's opinions and tastes : you need time to make up your own, which, as Alex says, is all what matters.

[chris@panteg]

Hmmm, sounds familiar!

Nice one Guy ' he he like it.

[Beobloke]

..CQ30 had MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction. I'd rather have a Thorens TD160 I think....

Hmm, I've had both and I'd take the Fons, personally. Suck it and see, Gary!