Tangential tone arms worth considering?

[Exophile]

I am thinking about upgrading my TT. I currently have a Thorens 203 which is a POS.

One option is the Linn route. Sort of traditional-classy looking deck, that seems to deliver, but at a hefty price tag. Lots of other options from other manufacturers.

The alternative is a deck with tangential tone arm. Looking at Clearaudio TT5 possibly on a Performance DC table. The perfect alignment makes sense to me, and the no-air compressor is a sensible approach with the TT5. That puts a system (without cartridge and phono stage) in the ~$5-6K range, which is doable, still better than a top end Linn at $20K. There is not a whole lot of competition in tangential tone arms.

Question: Is a tangential tone arm a sensible approach in that price range, or would it be better to look at a "normal" tone arm from other manufacturers, with much wider choices?

[Frazeur1]

Daniel, I own a Holbo TT with an air bearing arm that is linear tracking. It is a great turntable and I enjoy it very much. I think there is a lot to like about an arm like this, but I certainly would be the last to say that it is the end-all, be-all of all things analog. In other words, there are just as many arguments against such arms, as are plusses. Many things in this hobby can be swings and roundabouts.

I say buy a table/arm/cartridge/phono stage that you like the sound of and are capable of setting it up properly and keeping it running. Sit back, relax and enjoy your music, don't let the technology and all that stuff take you down a path that just may not matter. IMO of course!

PS-I should also say that my comment may sound like I do not care much for the Holbo, or damning with feint praise, but I happen to love the table very much. It sounds fantastic, reasonably easy to setup. I am glad I bought it, no regrets there at all! But I have also heard many tables that I could also live with, so.....

[icehockeyboy]

Does anyone remember the American ‘Rabco’ company?

They made both an integrated TT with a tangential arm, and also a servo driven stand alone arm, which I owned, strapped to a Thorens TD 125, with The then ubiquitous Shure V15/3.

Whether or not it succeeded in offering zero tracking error or not, it offered an alternative to a SME 3009. ( my arm prior to the Rabco)


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[walpurgis]

I remember Rabco arms. Wasn't it a version of these that was used on the Harman Kardon turntables of the time?

[Frazeur1]

I think it was Geoff. It has been a long time since I have messed with one. Thought they were pretty good though.

[Exophile]

Not sure I would want to mess with a vintage linear tracking arm. Given that an entry level tangential like the Clearaudio TT5 costs about $2700, does it offer advantages over a conventional tone arm in that price range? Or is a "cheap" tangential worse than a similarly priced conventional one?

[Frazeur1]

I think it is somewhat difficult to make any kind of comparison generally. Hard to find the same basic deck that is set up to take either type of arm and do a direct comparison. As I said in my post above, there will be those that get behind one design or the other at times, and the various pluses and minus for each design. In the end, are the differences audible or different enough for one to make a preference over the other? Maybe. Hopefully the one who designs whichever arm/table you are looking and listening for, has done his job and done it well.

It sounds to me, and I may be wrong of course, that you may have a good fascination with this type of arm possibly, and you just want one! Nothing wrong with that. Go for it! As far as the money end, and which one is what, look at your overall budget for each setup and go from there. There is just as much expensive junk out there as there are good reasonably priced arms and tables. With that kind of money though, I would certainly try to listen to one of the Clearaudios or whatever ones you fancy, see if you can hear differences in them and which one might sway you either way.

I know that doesn’t really answer your question, probably because the answer is as long as a piece of string, and how long is that? Rely on your ears, they will guide you! And it is only you and your own ears that have to be pleased!

[KWJ]

I have owned the Clearaudio TT2 and TT3 they both have a common problem the metal bearings that carrie the arm in the glass tubes they make an audible noise between tracks at higher volumes you can lessen the noise by putting blue tac all over the glass tube but personally I couldn't deal with blue tac all over a 3k and 10k arm . If I was going to do linear arm again it would be a air bearing arm.

[Exophile]

Timothy: thanks for the words of wisdom. The tangential/linear tone arms are interesting because the geometry makes obvious sense. I contrast that with the Linn tone arm with spring holding the needle firmer in groove, where I have a harder time given rather small forces, large distances and mass inertia.

I'm in a weird place where I know that entry level (the 82 Thorens arm on the TD203) does not seem to satisfy me, but don't know what make an actual difference, and what is snake oil. Then there is also the multifactorial space of table, arm, cartridge, phono stage, ear. Manufacturer's just tout their product, reviews are selective and generally rather positive, dealers are biased towards gear they carry, and neutral comparative write-ups are difficult to come by. I read Harley's book on high end audio, but that stop short on the finer points of arm design. Not sure there is something more specific to TTs.

Well understood that proof is at the ear. But have to narrow down what I even want to explore.

I have owned the Clearaudio TT2 and TT3 they both have a common problem the metal bearings that carrie the arm in the glass tubes they make an audible noise between tracks at higher volumes you can lessen the noise by putting blue tac all over the glass tube but personally I couldn't deal with blue tac all over a 3k and 10k arm . If I was going to do linear arm again it would be a air bearing arm.

Thanks for this, Kevin. Quite interesting. I thought that the lack an air compressor with associated noise was a solid feature of the Clearaudio arms. Maybe have to re-think that.

[Exophile]

On thinking about it a bit more, I think I have some ideas of what I am looking for:
- more traditional look (no egg shaped acrylic or glass pieces out of star treck)
- Table with suspension.
- Fully manual operation.
- 33/45 speed change by pressing button (not manually re-positioning belt)
- MM & MC capable.
- Arm precision machined/operated: think Zeiss microscopes, no plastic.
- Am willing to fiddle for set-up. In my day job I run an electron microscopy facility.
- Sound neutral if not treble biased, positively not accentuating bass. Think Etymotics/Grado headphones.
- Price range of table, arm, cartridge in the $5-10 range (won't complain about <$5k).
- Strongly biased towards new, not second hand. Want to be sure that it was not abused previously.

Can you help me narrowing down searches, pointing me in the right direction? Thanks!