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Thread: The Logitech Touch Experience

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Nottingham UK

    Posts: 550
    I'm ThinkingOfHorns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Alfie,



    The bit in bold though is the million dollar question... Exactly how much NEW real music (not audiophile tinkly-tinkly pap) is available as high-res downloads, compared to the same on CD?

    For me, no matter how good high-res downloads sound, unless I can obtain the same quantity of choice of new music, as is available now on CD (and/or CD and vinyl together), then I'd simply not be interested! Choice seems rather limited at the moment, and I'm not convinced it's likely to get better to the degree I'd require to wholeheartedly embrace the format.

    As for the audio performance aspect of high-res downloads, I can't really comment as I've yet to hear any reproduced through a genuinely top-notch system (something I could actually live with), so until then I'll reserve judgement.

    However, what I will say is that I'm sceptical of an entity which may well start its life as 'high-res', being diluted into something rather inferior, as it makes its way through the replay chain of (noisy, non-audiophile friendly) paraphernalia attached to the average computer streaming set-up, and its inherent sonic compromises.............

    What use is there in sampling the finest claret after it’s been strained though a sweaty sock?

    Marco.
    Hi Marco,

    I agree at present there is a limited amount of 'real' music available as Hi-Rez but the catalogue is growing slowly all the time https://www.hdtracks.com/ for one are starting to add some better stuff. We will have to see what happens long term but I remember this same point of view when CD was introduced & the hardcore vinyl lovers said the same about quantity of CD. With hindsight this turned out to be quite shortsighted of them. On the other hand I did own a betamax VCR.

    As the streamers are getting better though Marco, The ModWright for one sounds as good as a lot of the better CDP even on 16/44.1 recordings. For me I'm just looking to add another source but the writing could be on the wall for CDP for me.

    The file can be streamed from NAS so there's not even a need to have a PC in the playback chain so that may acount for the worry of added noise and can be checked for bit perfect.

    Starting with a touch into a Dac is not a big investment & is adding to my largish collection of Records & CDs. No brainer for me!
    alfie
    Main System: Denon DP-6000 VPI Base/Fidelity Research FR64s/Ortofon SPU Royal GM MKII/Shelter 901/Auditorium 23 SUT/Pure Sound P10/SB Touch or Audio Note CDT & M2Tech Young Dac/BL Audio LP-1/New Audio Frontiers KT66 Legend/Living Voice OBX.
    2nd System: PC/Foobar/E-MU 0404 pci (Modded)/AVI ADM9/Rel Strata II subs.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: NE Scotland

    Posts: 496
    I'm Jim.

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    No problem with the banter but I have been looking for some comparisons of the Touch against other streamers.

    So far every thread seems to sidetrack into something not specific to the Touch or concerns the operation/set up of it. There's even a thread on the Logitech forum that just deteriorated into the usual slagging match about cables.

    I was really looking forward to seeing how the Touch compares against the competition but so far not too much comment.
    Naim ND5 XS, nDAC, XP5 XS, 202, HC, NAPSC, 250.2, B&W 804s.
    AVR350, B&W HTM4, Gallo.
    Samsung, Oppo.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Sorry,this is the first streamer I've had,so I can't help there.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Alfie,



    The bit in bold though is the million dollar question... Exactly how much NEW real music (not audiophile tinkly-tinkly pap) is available as high-res downloads, compared to the same on CD?

    For me, no matter how good high-res downloads sound, unless I can obtain the same quantity of choice of new music, as is available now on CD (and/or CD and vinyl together), then I'd simply not be interested! Choice seems rather limited at the moment, and I'm not convinced it's likely to get better to the degree I'd require to wholeheartedly embrace the format.

    As for the audio performance aspect of high-res downloads, I can't really comment as I've yet to hear any reproduced through a genuinely top-notch system (something I could actually live with), so until then I'll reserve judgement.

    However, what I will say is that I'm sceptical of an entity which may well start out as 'high-res', being diluted into something rather inferior, as it makes its way through the replay chain of (noisy, non-audiophile friendly) paraphernalia attached to the average computer streaming set-up, and its inherent sonic compromises.............

    What use is there in sampling the finest claret after it’s been strained though a sweaty sock?

    Marco.
    I agree,though this stuff is still in it's infancy,I'm sure it will take off,it's just like cd when that came out.As for the replay chain,that's why I waited for the Touch,as you can connect your hard-drive (in my case a Drobo) directly to it,avoiding the need to run a pc at the same time,so I just have the Touch,and a square black box with 4 hard-drives in it connected together with a USB,and that's it.Simples! Pretty much any storage device will work with it.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: NE Scotland

    Posts: 496
    I'm Jim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Sorry,this is the first streamer I've had,so I can't help there.
    No problem Ali. Good to see that you're enjoying yours!
    Naim ND5 XS, nDAC, XP5 XS, 202, HC, NAPSC, 250.2, B&W 804s.
    AVR350, B&W HTM4, Gallo.
    Samsung, Oppo.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trailer View Post
    No problem with the banter but I have been looking for some comparisons of the Touch against other streamers.

    So far every thread seems to sidetrack into something not specific to the Touch or concerns the operation/set up of it. There's even a thread on the Logitech forum that just deteriorated into the usual slagging match about cables.

    I was really looking forward to seeing how the Touch compares against the competition but so far not too much comment.
    I hear ya, I was looking for the same.
    A bloke on the Touch forums sold his Lavray Dac(a DA11 I think) after hearing how good the Touch was...

    THAT got my attention

    Couple of Linkys...
    http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pc...s/5/59877.html
    http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167

    great quote from one of the (senior?) beta testers of the Touch..

    "If by modified SB3 you are referring to the SB+, then yes it is as good as a Transporter. But if you are talking about Boulder or any of the other rip-offs selling modified SB3's then not even close to a TP or even up to a Touch for that matter. By borrowing most and buying a few, I have tested almost all of them. Some actually perform worse then a base line SB3 and most only show the slightest increase on the graph which is not even enough to be enough to be heard because the improvement is so so small as to be barely the thickness of the original graphing line better. When doing accurate and extensive listening tests, there are no differences or improvements if one hasn't spend ones hard earned dollars and expecting to hear some! Besides by the time one buys an SB3 and gets it back from Boulder with all the possible modifications, one could have just bought a Transporter and saved $300 or more dollars and ended up with a Transporter that does play 24/96 native!

    By my remarks about the Transporter, please don't get me wrong as the Touch will make a fine digital transport that is a big improvement over the SB3 with the added bonus of playing 24/96 native. It is just my opinion from listening to both of them for over 6 months and testing them that the win still goes to the Transporter. I firmly believe this is especially true if both are being used for their analog outputs. The Transporter has superior analog outs. Running both digital outputs into my Dodson DA-217 MK2-D Digital Processor things get much closer with again with the Transporter being the winner (but its much closer). So it comes down to how its being used as to which to buy now. IMO if one is using analog outs and has to have the best, the Transporter wins hands down. If one only needs a digital transport for a very good DAC, then I say buy a Touch
    . "

    and another:
    http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  7. #27
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Drop me a PM if you wanna come over for a listen Gaz.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Ali,

    I agree,though this stuff is still in it's infancy,I'm sure it will take off,it's just like cd when that came out.
    I agree - lots to be optimised yet

    As for the replay chain,that's why I waited for the Touch,as you can connect your hard-drive (in my case a Drobo) directly to it,avoiding the need to run a pc at the same time,so I just have the Touch,and a square black box with 4 hard-drives in it connected together with a USB,and that's it.Simples! Pretty much any storage device will work with it.
    Does any of the above use a (noisy) switch-mode power supply [not that switch modes are always necessarily a bad thing]?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Aughton, Ormskirk

    Posts: 2,848
    I'm Jerry.

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    I think the Touch does have a smps but its not an issue as it has a different type of display from the Classic. Thats what I have heard but no doubt someone will bring out a fancy power supply for it.
    Jerry
    Hifi: IPL transmission line floorstanding speakers, Squeezebox Touch, Denafrips Ares 11 DAC, DCB1 Pre-amplifier, Croft Series 7 power amp.
    Custom Hifi cables HA10SE headphone amplifier and Hifiman HE-400 headphones.
    AV system: LG 55B7, Denon AVR -x2300w receiver, Quad 12L (front) 11c Centre and 11L rear . Velodyne DD15 subwoofer.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    As Jerry says,the Touch does,but apparently changing the supply makes no difference due to the design.I remain to be convinced of that though.The Drobo uses one too,but is only connected to the Touch via USB,so not an issue as far as sound quality is concerned.

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