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Thread: Petition for clean Brexit referendum

  1. #131
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 6,869
    I'm Lawrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ff1d1l View Post
    Why, that's really nice of you!

    Howsitgoin' Lawrence - was good hanging out with you! Till next year?

    Have amassed all the components to make a pair of JBL 4430 clones....
    Good thanks, not much time for HiFi as I'd like but then children are more rewarding in a different way yes I very much hope to get to Kegworth or wherever it might be next time. Will I get to hear the Ureis again though??

    Would the JBLs sound as good, I find it hard to believe much can come close..

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

  2. #132
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Snowdonia

    Posts: 393
    I'm Nial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Good thanks, not much time for HiFi as I'd like but then children are more rewarding in a different way yes I very much hope to get to Kegworth or wherever it might be next time. Will I get to hear the Ureis again though??

    Would the JBLs sound as good, I find it hard to believe much can come close..

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
    I have high hopes for the JBLs....was a bit of a story to deciding to make them. I went after a pair of Urei 815s (do google - they are awesomely huge!)- when I got there I found two things not made clear on the advert - the bass units, which should be made by Eminence. had been replaced by JBL 2225s, and they had been stored somewhere really really damp, such that the cabs had turned to cheesey mess.

    So I offered just for the drivers and crossovers, so got another pair of the Altec drivers you liked so much in the 811s and 2 pairs of these very desirable JBLs.

    I've stuck one pair in the subs I had at Keggie - to very good effect, I might add - and decided to make a clone pair of JBL 4430s with the other pair.
    So have been hoovering up the other bits on ebay - the butt cheek horns are rare and don't come up often, but luckily got a NIB pair from the States. Still haven't got crossovers though, but will probably make them, with the pots bypassed like on the Ureis you heard - I guess this, better quality resistors and caps and leaving out the active/passive selector switch will elevate performance to somewhere up by the big Ureis.

    Bear in mind that these and the bigger 4435s did to some extent displace the Ureis in studios, so I have high hopes, as I say!

    My son will finish at LIPA next year, so these will do for studio monitors if and when he sets up a studio.

    Kids, eh! Make sure you expose them to plenty of good music of yours before they get into their own, then the bonus is they'll come back with interesting stuff to introduce you to.

  3. #133
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Snowdonia

    Posts: 393
    I'm Nial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Clearly we have different ideas of what a Court is and what sovereignty encompasses.

    But under your definitions it is impossible for any nation that trades to have sovereignty. So that clearly cannot be the definition of the word or it would be a redundant concept. Or are you arguing that it is a redundant concept?


    Re immigration I don't see any need to produce evidence, you need to produce evidence or at least show by what mechanism that the UK outside of the EU will not be able to attract the required skills in the required numbers. As far as I can see there is no difference to that issue whether we are in or out. It is still people's free choice if they want to come and work here either way.
    No, I think our definition of sovereignty is much the same - to clarify, I mean the ability to make, enact and enforce our own laws without this being compromised by outside interference. Do you agree with that definition?

    Whether this "sovereignty" is compromised by a court, or an all powerful tribunal we are subservient to as a result of of trade agreement being conditional on our acceptance of its rulings seems to have no distincton between them to me. And of course, even if we are not under the ECJ any more, we have signed up to the European Court of Human Rights, and will be still be liable to abide by its decisions post tory brexit. If you say sovereignty is only compromised by courts, you, frankly, need to get real. The real power is wielded by corporations, and their machinations trump sovereignty now, and will do so increasingly.

    Is sovereignty a redundant concept? I guess in the Rees Mogg Days of Empire sense, yes. The world doesn't work that way anymore. All the more shameful this brexit mess was partly sold on that basis.

    Re Immigration, no, as I see it the balls in your court, but if you don't want to play it, fine.

  4. #134
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ff1d1l View Post
    Well, aside from describing Lewis Carrol as "arrogant condescending bollocks" - surely a first - the referendum surely was won by exactly such arrogant condescending bollocks, if I can borrow your phrase.
    I give you project fear, the bus, the we don't need experts.
    Just the first three that came to mind.

    And as leavers on here have no hesitation into descending into ad hom - I'll also point out that this is surely a sure sign that they are on shaky ground and feel their position threatened.
    Let's have some credible, (not ERG funded jism) facts posted by leavers which credibly demonstrate tory brexit will bring:
    Better economic performance, short and long term.
    Trade deals with no loss of sovereignty.
    Lower immigration without the health service and agriculture keeling over.
    Yeah, I know, I could so easily add controls on oligarch money laundering in London, proper taxation of mega corporations, addressing offshore tax avoidance, but we'll leave it to those first three. And facts, not "I believe" or "I have a mate that" or "stupid remoaners won't have this". Some FACTS, by someone reasonably expert will do nicely.
    1) Your use of the quote in this context was arrogant and condescending and needed to be called out. I assume you understand this since it was your intention to be offensive? Red herring.

    2) You seem to assume that the primary goal of Brexit is economic. For many, that is not the case. It's about sovereignty. I don't see that a trade deal involves a loss of sovereignty anywhere comparable to that involved in the EU treaties - indeed it's arguable that no sovereignty is lost at all, at least not in the same way. Red herring.

    3) Brexit is not about reduced immigration (many areas and many sectors need more immigration, not less), but controlled immigration. As it stands we have no control over who comes in from the EU. This will change. But again - red herring, the usual Remoaner bollocks to paint those in favour of Brexit as pigmy-brained bigots, when in fact the bigotry is often the other way - good old British class snobbery.

    4) There are many, economic arguments in favour of Brexit, a lot of them coming from broadly similar perspectives, not that you appear to read widely enough to have come across any. (Something that itself is a bit amusing). But you could read some of this material here on the Economists for Free Trade site:
    https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/publication/

    Of course you may dismiss some of these arguments on grounds that the actions outlined are not to your political taste, but that's an entirely different argument.

  5. #135
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Snowdonia

    Posts: 393
    I'm Nial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    1) Your use of the quote in this context was arrogant and condescending and needed to be called out. I assume you understand this since it was your intention to be offensive? Red herring.

    2) You seem to assume that the primary goal of Brexit is economic. For many, that is not the case. It's about sovereignty. I don't see that a trade deal involves a loss of sovereignty anywhere comparable to that involved in the EU treaties - indeed it's arguable that no sovereignty is lost at all, at least not in the same way. Red herring.

    3) Brexit is not about reduced immigration (many areas and many sectors need more immigration, not less), but controlled immigration. As it stands we have no control over who comes in from the EU. This will change. But again - red herring, the usual Remoaner bollocks to paint those in favour of Brexit as pigmy-brained bigots, when in fact the bigotry is often the other way - good old British class snobbery.

    4) There are many, economic arguments in favour of Brexit, a lot of them coming from broadly similar perspectives, not that you appear to read widely enough to have come across any. (Something that itself is a bit amusing). But you could read some of this material here on the Economists for Free Trade site:
    https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/publication/

    Of course you may dismiss some of these arguments on grounds that the actions outlined are not to your political taste, but that's an entirely different argument.
    Ahh, so you're calling me, rather than Lewis Carroll, arrogant and condescending. Now that's crystal clear, I'll just leave that there, I think.

    I've addressed the sovereignty issue elsewhere on this thread. If you still maintain your position after reading it, fine - we have no more to say to each other - I don't have time to waste on those immune to reason.

    Brexit was most definitely, unarguably and unambiguously sold on the basis that it would stop immigration. If you want to try and move the goalposts after the event, do so, but don't think it isn't obvious what you're doing.

    I went to the site you linked to, but was put off the the moral and intellectual failings of those on the "our advisors" page. Its an ERG front, isn't it? Sorry, but I can't take that seriously. Or credit anything on a website associated with Mogg.
    Our advisors?
    Our funnelers of Aaron Banks Russian money, more like.
    No, not acceptable.
    You want me to post stuff from The Canary?
    Standards, mate.

  6. #136
    montesquieu Guest

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    Hilarious. Won't (can't?) engage with the argument, just an ad hominem. Says all I need to know about your intellectual bandwith on this topic.

  7. #137
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Snowdonia

    Posts: 393
    I'm Nial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Hilarious. Won't (can't?) engage with the argument, just an ad hominem. Says all I need to know about your intellectual bandwith on this topic.
    Ad Hominem...that's that Latin isn't it - is that like calling people arrogant and condescending? ...if only I could aspire to your intellectual bandwidth. Still, I can dream, can't I?

  8. #138
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ff1d1l View Post
    Ad Hominem...that's that Latin isn't it - is that like calling people arrogant and condescending? ...if only I could aspire to your intellectual band width. Still, I can dream, can't I?
    It means 'to/toward the man' - kicking the person you are arguing with rather than addressing the argument. Exactly as you just did above, presumably because you can't deal with information that contradicts your prejudices. Stick to The Guardian and you won't be needing to worry about such a trauma, there's a good chap.

    As I mentioned, I started off as a Remainer, but was persuaded of the opportunity through wider reading after the result. (We've already established you'd rather just stay in your bubble that read anything that contradicts what you think already).

    I can still see arguments for both sides, and I am genuinely worried that the Tories are cocking up the negotiations. But what gets me very pissed off is when I come across Remoaner bigots who refuse to see that there is a genuine opportunity here, and who spend their time rushing around gathering information to confirm their small-minded 'anti' prejudices while rejecting anything that argues to the contrary. (And yes such types exist on the Leave side too, but I see them more often on the Remain side, usually mixed up with snobbery and arrogance. Recognise anyone?)

  9. #139
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,771
    I'm Martin.

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    Enough now gentlemen. If we cannot discuss the topic rationally then who can?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #140
    Join Date: Dec 2014

    Location: UK, inactive

    Posts: 1,570
    I'm inactive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    1) Your use of the quote in this context was arrogant and condescending and needed to be called out.
    Utter nonsense - some light hearted banter and little more.

    The Brekshitters on this thread seem to be a very thin skinned lot ...

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