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Thread: Petition for clean Brexit referendum

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    Scotland voted to remain in but were out voted by the damned Sassanachs. Lol
    I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see it lead to Scottish independence in the not too distant future.

    Reunification of Ireland has also become not unimaginable.

    Meanwhile homelessness is on the rise and the the grass grows long in the parks.

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  2. #72
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    Threads like this amuse me.
    The pound is going to be worth next to nothing.
    All the major companies will leave the U.K. as customs charges come into play, and the country will carry on going down the pan.

    The fact that the majority voted based on false truths (the extra millions going into the NHS and the immigration issues) to leave is laughable. You will leave the EU, still pay the same fees as before and have no benefits from being a member.
    What could possibly go wrong?

    The EU are making an example of the U.K. so it is not going to be an easy ride!

    I am remaining in the EU.
    Utter nonsense. There was never a single market in services (80% of the UK economy anyway) and never likely to be because of vested interests in the other large EU economies, which simply never learned to compete in these areas globally.

    The (North American) IT company I work for is booming in the UK and has been for months, with companies here investing in systems. We had our best ever quarter and our best ever year in FY 17-18 (which just ended in June according to our timetable). This is predominantly investment in new systems made by major multinationals, focused in the UK. We are doing better than France, Spain, Italy, Holland .. even Germany.

    Anecdote is not data of course, but in my view anyone dumb enough to buy into Project Fear (Groaniad readers generally) needs to read a bit more widely. The anti Brexit propaganda before during and since has been utterly OTT and far outweighs anything nonsense on the side of buses that the Remain lot complained about.

    The worst-case referendum predictions showed a pretty small effect on UK GDP from a Brexit vote with a substantial potential for upside if played well. The only thing that can mess it up is precisely what has happened - a cack-handed government not taking necessary steps to make a success of it.

    I was more or less for remain, not because I like the EU (far from it, it's utterly corrupt and undemocratic, the whole Junker-Selmayr thing is a perfect case in point), but because I was worried about the impact on Scottish independence, which I'm resolutely against, and I was also a bit concerned about the hassle factor.

    But since we voted out, the only logical thing that makes any sense is a proper, hard Brexit that actually focuses on obtaining the advantages of being out - not some half-in nonsense that is all obligation without influence.

  3. #73
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Despite the predictions and guesses, nobody knows how it will turn out. No doubt not even those 'organising' things, regardless of which side of the table they are sat. The situation was much the same in 1973 when Britain signed up to the Common Market, as it was called then. Did expectations match the realities? Were the goalposts moved?

  4. #74
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  5. #75
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    Last edited by rdpx; 20-07-2018 at 00:46. Reason: Life too short.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ff1d1l View Post
    I'll just clarify that this is a Yougov poll conducted on the 16th-17th July, the questions being:

    Britain to remain in the EU
    Britain to leave the EU and accept the negotiated deal
    Britain to leave the EU without a deal.

    the results are

    Britain to remain in the EU 50%
    Britain to leave the EU and accept the negotiated deal 17%
    Britain to leave the EU without a deal 33%

    and with weighting applied for second preference expressed

    Britain to remain in the EU 55%
    Britain to leave the EU without a deal 45%

    Figures are also broken down by geographical region, age, political affiliation etc, which makes for interesting reading.

    From the LSE link in the previous post

    "Yet closer examination of the evidence paints a far less rosy picture. It is of course impossible to know how the economy would have fared in the absence of a vote to leave the EU as we have no observable counterfactual. Yet UK growth has slowed markedly since the referendum in 2016, over a period when the rest of the global economy has boomed. The UK has gone from top of the G7 growth league in 2015 to likely bottom in 2018. All else equal, growth in the UK economy should have accelerated and not slowed over this period. World growth increased in 2017 to 3.8 percent, with a notable rebound in global trade which is expected to endure through 2018. At the same time the Bank of England loosened policy, and the Treasury soft-pedalled on fiscal policy. Yet despite this, something seems to be acting as a powerful drag on UK growth and this is consistent with a negative Brexit effect."

    For those who haven't read the thread in its entirety, there is link to a petition to rescind article 50, which would probably necessitate a referendum worded not unlike the above, in the first post.

  7. #77
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    Was about to write something rude then I looked at your profile and realised who you are so I'm keeping schtum. Those Ureis at Kegworth were the highlight of the show for me

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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I agree. The financial crash of 2008 was a huge event of monumental proportions, yet how many economists and politicians saw it coming? Not many. So why should we have any faith in their ability to predict the economy of the future?
    Your position appears to be that because someone was once eaten by a wolf you do now on principle not heed any warnings about wolves?



    https://www.ft.com/content/452dc484-...4-00144feabdc0

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Was about to write something rude then I looked at your profile and realised who you are so I'm keeping schtum. Those Ureis at Kegworth were the highlight of the show for me

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    Why, that's really nice of you!

    Howsitgoin' Lawrence - was good hanging out with you! Till next year?

    Have amassed all the components to make a pair of JBL 4430 clones....

  10. #80
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpx View Post
    Your position appears to be that because someone was once eaten by a wolf you do now on principle not heed any warnings about wolves?



    https://www.ft.com/content/452dc484-...4-00144feabdc0

    Since the referendum I've come close to cancelling my subscription to The Economist, something I've had runing for over 30 years. The reason is that it has ceased to attempt to report on the Brexit debate with anything close to impartiality. The same applies to the FT. Both see themselves now as players in something that isn't finished, part of an attempt to swing the debate back by partisan reporting of statistics, and by miscaracterisation of Brexiteers as thick or deranged.

    As I mentioned I was a soft remainer at the time of the referendum but acknowledge there were (and are) strong arguments either way. But the people voted, and that has to be respected. Most Brexit supporters I know voted out of a concern for sovereignty, at the democratic deficit from an overbearing EU commission, and to some extent also at concern that the EU had lost control of its borders. (At the time of the vote this seemed pretty clear though it has unquestionably improved since then).

    Since then I have been persuaded into the soft Brexiteer camp, mainly out of irritation at those who are using the issue for sneering and virtue signalling - look at me I'm not a knuckle dragging, kick the immigrants out oik like those thick Brexit voters - identity politics cuts both ways and that sort of condescending attitude is something that I want nothing to do with.

    As to the arguments, I read quite widely (not just the Groan or the FT) have read material on everything from the result being an asteroid strike on the UK economy to predictions of +3% GDP per annum after an initial adjustment period. All arguments are partisan and none, I believe, can be taken as gospel. Most Brexiteers acknowledge that there will be an initial negative impact but even the worst case treasury predictions were not catastrophic in this regard.

    Many countries around the world manage to trade perfectly well outside the EU, thanks to the WTO and to bilateral treaties. The doom meisters need to acknowledge that the EU (the Commission mainly but also other actors including some politicians) is trying as hard as it can to manipulate sentiment and that its statements should be read entirely in that light.

    There is a particularly idiotic example of this today - the Irish PM saying he'll ban UK flights over Irish airspace. Kind of backfired a bit though - what a clown, didn't exactly think it through:


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