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Thread: The Snake Oil Machine

  1. #41
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    A phrase such as that Neil, isn't helping your argument.

    Are there no items or accessories which you think are absurd and would not give them the time of day? What about the ideas of the late Peter Belt - many of them were cheap to implement, if not free, despite being regarded by many as absurd.
    I asked Neil earlier on what he considered the cut off point to be but no response. I thought it was a reasonable and very pertinent question. If there is to be no cut off point then I really struggle with that, it seems irrational and illogical.


    I'm all for the idea that the Universe is stranger than we can imagine. But there's a big gap for me between that and chancers exploiting human psychology to sell quack remedies. This cable is obviously in the latter camp.


    When I was in sales my job was to sell tat for more than it was worth, and for more than you could buy it elsewhere. You were not allowed to lie but you could 'paint a picture' and draw the punter into a world where the purchase made sense to him. That's why the advert for this product has no experimental results to show the claimed dramatic reduction in the noise floor but instead highlights the use of some supposedly rare and exotic Japanese charcoal that has special properties. As soon as you encounter something like that in any sales pitch, you know you are being mugged off.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    It's almost as if sarcasm doesn't work on the Internet.
    Ah, indeed .
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  3. #43
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    Mark, why not enliven the thread with the tales of your latest acquisition. I heard Paul's last night.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  4. #44
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    My DC Blocker? Is it relebvant to the thread? I don’t know about how Paul has wired his but mine doesn’t alter the way the system is earthed at all. I am really pleased with it though - much better than smaller examples. It has completely quelled the variable transformer buzz I used to get and the system sounds better as well - win, win .



    Is it an example of a ‘snake oil’ product? I don’t know, I mean it says it blocks (or traps) DC on the mains and that is what it does. I suppose the argument revolves around whether one actually needs it or not?

    What did you find at Paul’s Si?
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  5. #45
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    A DC - blocker is not an example of "snake oil". It does what it says; it removes the presence of DC on the mains to items downstream from it. How it does it is well understood and explained by current electronic theory. Its use does not necessarily guarantee the elimination of mains 'buzz' from all transformers, but it can be very effective in a lot of cases. (If the DC level is 100mV or greater, this can cause toroidal transformers having a rating 100VA or more to 'buzz' mechanically.)

    I don't know if this DC-blocker costs £299 or more (I would hope considerably less), but it has clearly cured the problem you once had.
    Barry

  6. #46
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Amongst other smaller transformers there are three 500VA transformers in my system and it is these that would vary in terms of mechanical hum; as you say, this is a well known issue with large value toroidal transformers. I made the unit above, but it’s based on a kit circuit board (you can buy them already populated with components).

    http://sjostromaudio.net/shop/mains-...y-version.html
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  7. #47
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    I bought the kit Mark, but have yet to assemble it. I'm hoping to quiet a vibratory mains transformer in one of my DACs. It may not work of course, but it can't hurt to try.

  8. #48
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    If the buzz is continuous it probably won’t do anything as it is likely loose windings etc. - fingers crossed though .
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  9. #49
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

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    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I asked Neil earlier on what he considered the cut off point to be but no response. I thought it was a reasonable and very pertinent question. If there is to be no cut off point then I really struggle with that, it seems irrational and illogical.


    I'm all for the idea that the Universe is stranger than we can imagine. But there's a big gap for me between that and chancers exploiting human psychology to sell quack remedies. This cable is obviously in the latter camp.


    When I was in sales my job was to sell tat for more than it was worth, and for more than you could buy it elsewhere. You were not allowed to lie but you could 'paint a picture' and draw the punter into a world where the purchase made sense to him. That's why the advert for this product has no experimental results to show the claimed dramatic reduction in the noise floor but instead highlights the use of some supposedly rare and exotic Japanese charcoal that has special properties. As soon as you encounter something like that in any sales pitch, you know you are being mugged off.
    I’ll agree, as a man of science, I understand that i don’t know everything, but the theory offered has to at least make some kind of sense. If their reasoning defies logic, it falls into question. I.e., charcoal is burnt wood, is it logical that being from Japan would somehow make this burnt wood have unique properties? Perhaps logic is in the eye of the beholder?

    And there is also the telltale sales pitch, their theory that lacks any real known science is backed up by personal endorsements from unknown people. And even if it might make a minor difference, that’s not good enough it must be life altering! Many vails lifted, blackest blacks, etc. it becomes predictable.

    And thirdly, I don’t care if it does have sound science, can they justify the price? So many times, the answer is no. Some of the best speakers in the world cost $150,000! For a wooden box with speaker elements in it. Sure it may actually be the best speaker on earth! But can they justify that price? Not to me they can’t. Should a box two foot square and five feet tall cost as much as a house? I’m sorry, I can’t get my head around that. If I were suddenly a billionaire, I still doubt I could bring myself to pay such an unreasonable sum. I’ve heard respected reviewers going on about cables that cost $12,000, I’m sorry, it cannot be that good, no matter what. But that’s just me, those are my standards. I don’t expect everyone else to comply to my standards. But, if one should ask me if I think it’s a good deal? I’m going to say no.

    Russell

  10. #50
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

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    These things (or at least a proof of concept) are easy to DIY so why not at least try it?

    Tried one made from a length of Isotek shielded mains cable, a "Plugg" (tm) and an MS.Audio phono connector.
    Just disconnect and isolate the live and neutral wires and connect the earth wire to the earth tab of the phono plug.
    Plug it into any unused rca socket to provide direct earthing from the signal board, not just the chassis.
    Kit dependant of course, you may be providing a better earth (and removing electrical mush?) to the bit that actually processes the signal, so maybe worth a try...who knows.

    Mixed results, but this makes a difference in my opinion.
    Tried it on my Densen Pre...added an earth loop and a wonderful hum, so out it went.

    Lowered the noise floor on my Dac though, result.
    The cable is staying as it makes an improvement.
    Somethings making a difference and Im happy to keep it in.

    im ok DIYing for a few quid, but wouldn't pay the asking price for a commercial one.
    Could be better, could be no better...but not taking a punt at that price.

    Happy I tried it.
    Last edited by Gazjam; 19-07-2018 at 11:15.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

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