World Cup Russia 2018

[Joe]

I'm afraid (and I apologise to all the England fans here) that it's now completely turned me against England in this World Cup, where beforehand I was wishing them well, so tomorrow I hope that Belgium give them a footballing lesson they never forget, and when England do eventually go out, I'll be laughing my tits off, especially at how much it'll piss off that smug, 'waving bye-bye' wanker, Lineker!!

Marco.

Aren't you blaming the England team for the comments of a commentator, over which they had zero control or influence?

[Marco]

Aren't you blaming the England team for the comments of a commentator, over which they had zero control or influence?

No, I'm not blaming the team, but given the antics of Lineker and co, it will now be difficult, as a neutral, not to feel some smug satisfaction when England eventually do go out, simply to watch Lineker, and the rest of the English media, cry into their soup!

I'll have mixed feelings though, as there are England fans here I consider as friends, so when that time comes, I'll also be disappointed for them. Hey, who knows, it might never come...!

Heaven help us though if that happens, as like 1966, we'll NEVER hear the end of it!!

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

Building us up for the inevitable are we?

All I want is for the team to go out and play without fear, express themselves, play for each other, and above all enjoy themselves doing it.
The weight of expectation the shirt has carried needs to be a thing of the past.

If they continue to play as they have they could go far, and that would be a bonus.
If they go out and play with aggression, conviction and skill, and get beaten by a better team there's no shame, or need for sadness.
If they do that I'll be proud of them and their efforts, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

On the QT, the key to it all is The Three Yorkshiremen

[Marco]

Lol - I'm with you on that, Chris. I think tomorrow's game could well be a draw, but I'll go for a narrow England win.

Tom, it's getting late now, so I'm going to hit the sack, but I *will* get to your earlier post tomorrow!

Marco.

[Macca]

Seriously though, Geoff, have you ever wondered why folks abroad feel that way towards the English? Could it be the bigger picture created by behaviour, such as I've outlined earlier?

Having toured extensively all over Europe, since I was five years old, I can tell you that there have always been advantages gained by letting the locals know that I was from Scotland, not England, and similarly in more recent times, my wife letting them know that she was Welsh (her other half, along with German).

In my experience, the Scots, Welsh and Irish tend to be welcomed with open arms by the locals abroad, yet not so much the English, who seem to be resented more. I wonder why that is?

Marco.

I've also travelled extensively in Europe and elsewhere and never encountered any issues whatsoever, people are generally interested when they realise you are English, they are never hostile.

You're confusing football with real life.

[Marco]

Sorry, Martin, how can you say that? Do you think I'm lying?

I'm relating my honest experience. Yours is different, and that's fine, but I can assure you, my experience abroad, generally, is that when I let people know I'm Scottish, not English, their attitude changes and becomes much friendlier. They often consider the English as arrogant.

I'm not saying that's always going to happen for everyone, but it's what I have personally experienced. Incidentally, it's rarely Scousers, Geordies or other northerners they're referring to, but folk shall we say from other parts of England

Anyway, we're drifting now, and there are good and bad people of all nationalities

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Tom.

As another Scot Marco I have to disagree entirely here. I have no problem with the English being patriotic especially as their team is doing well, and Macca's point is 100% correct - of course if Scotland qualified there would be precisely no impartiality north of the Border - not a chance, zilch, nada.

I keep saying this, but it's not "the English" I have a problem with, but simply the English TV football commentators and pundits, who often forget that not everyone watching will be an England fan and/or hate Germany. I don't want to listen to their anti-German bias, nor does my half-German wife, and we shouldn't have to. The English sports broadcasters have to be more responsible and realise that they're not *automatically* preaching to the converted!!

Maybe I've been down south too long (since 1996, thinking about it, barring a disastrous attempt to return between 2002 and 2004) but I'm supporting England in this one, and frankly I think anything else is small and petty, which pretty much sums up the whole SNP proposition in my book.

I think that's obvious, lol! As for the rest, you have your feelings, and I have mine. I'm not turning this into a political debate.

Scots should be big enough to support their nearest neighbours...

Fine, and often they do, but the English media should also be "big enough" to realise that non-England fans living in the UK, and also folks abroad, listening to their broadcast, don't necessarily want to hear their anti-German sentiments, and in fact, may be offended by them. For me, there's simply no excuse. If you're a professional, then be professional, and keep your gloating, at Germany's World Cup demise, for when the cameras are off you, or down the pub!

And if this were happening in Scotland, and Scottish football TV commentators and pundits were blatantly guilty of anti-English (or German) sentiments, then I'd be saying the exact same thing. That sort of behaviour, for me, is inexcusable from any broadcasting professional. And comments along the lines of 'That's the way it's always been' doesn't make it right. Something should be done about it, and perhaps if enough people complained, it would.

I'm one of many (most?) Scots whose families are 'complicated', only one example I'm father to a daughter born in Glasgow who moved south at two months old, and a son born in Bristol, their mum is a Kiwi (no surprises who they support at the rugby then!!). But on the whole they pretty much see themselves as English having been brought up there, and our brief time north of the Border didn't help as they were bulled for their English accents - kids aged 7 and 5 when they got there - yes adults might see all that anti-English joshing as bit of fun, but their children don't know the difference. This in a place as 'posh' as you'll get in the west of Scotland (Bothwell).

I abhor all forms of bullying, so I'm really sorry to hear they had to go through that. "Anti-English joshing", or its anti-Scottish equivalent, is all very well if it's good-natured banter, and appreciated by all participants concerned, but not with kids, and most certainly NOT when it's done with malice. I have no time for that crap.

You have an excuse Marco, having a more complicated heritage than most and probably not as strong an English connection as some, but with both Italy and Scotland failing to qualify I think you should get behind England, like I know perfectly well they would get behind us, barring a few knuckle draggers.

Firstly, I have no English connection whatsoever, never mind not a strong one. My ethnicity is 100% Italian, so that's first and foremost what I consider myself as. I was born in Scotland, in Glasgow, and lived there for nearly 40 years, so I obviously have a strong connection with Scotland, as it's my nationality, but none whatsoever with England.

As for the other bit, I was behind England until I witnessed the, for me, highly distasteful anti-German sentiments and gloating yesterday, from the English TV media, which I found rather offensive. I'm sorry, but I can't help how I feel. It's certainly NOT how to make friends elsewhere in the world, and you might look to that as one of the reasons why the English are often not popular abroad.

And BTW 'we' do not support independence, Scots voted by 55 per cent to 45 per cent for the status quo. 'You' might support it, but the majority of us (even from Irish backgrounds like myself - another complication in a rather complicated part of the planet) saw more value in being part of the United Kingdom. The SNP irritate me most when they affect to speak for all Scots, well they certainly don't speak for this one.

That's fair enough, and I respect that. My comment was a little tongue-in-cheek, and designed for effect, although I have rather different feelings from you on the subject of independence, which I'm extremely passionate about, and the kind of stuff I witnessed yesterday only fuels my feelings on that matter further. However, like I said, I'm not turning this into a political debate.

Right, back to football! So how many are England going to get cuffed by today?



Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Can I just say that I take no pleasure in seeing Germany going out yesterday, just incredible surprise though recent history almost predicted it would happen, I have huge respect for the German approach to football, they always look at what went wrong and come back strongly.

There is always going to be piss taking when teams lose, England are well experienced in that department and will go out again, no doubt about it but maybe not quite so embarrassingly I hope

[Sherwood]

I've also travelled extensively in Europe and elsewhere and never encountered any issues whatsoever, people are generally interested when they realise you are English, they are never hostile.

You're confusing football with real life.

Actually, I'm differentiating between football and real life. I've worked in 30 or so countries including 5 long term assignments in Africa and Asia. For the most part, people are very friendly at the individual level. That does not extend to sporting rivalries and it should not. Football, as I have noted earlier, is a tribal game and an important outlet for aggression. Shouting, screaming and taunting chants are all part of this tribal ritual, and a great release for aggression that might otherwise turn to physical violence.


Geoff

[Marco]

Yes, I fully agree, but NOT if you're a professional broadcaster. In that respect, keep a tin lid on your pro-England excesses and anti-German sentiments, as they won't necessarily be appreciated by everyone watching or listening. Simples!

The relatively unique situation we have in the UK, is that we're a nation made up of four different countries, not just one, as is mostly the norm elsewhere, each with their own fiercely patriotic/tribal set of football supporters, so I don't think it's unreasonable for our national broadcasters to understand that what England supporters might want to hear during a World Cup football match, is not necessarily what the rest of us in the UK do, and make allowances for that.

Can you understand, Geoff, why the bias that currently exists, in that respect, might irk some of us? We need to have a BBC, not an EBC. And the same also applies to ITV.

How would you like it, as an England fan, if the national commentary you had to listen to during international football matches was as heavily biased towards Scottish, Welsh or Irish sensibilities?

We need to move away from the notion that exists of it's only what England fans want that matters. This is one of the reasons why I support independence, as this type of English control/dominance is endemic in British society, on all sorts of levels - football coverage is but only a small part of it!

Marco.