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Thread: Are expensive carts worth it?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    neither ZYX did transparency
    Strange. I found the opposite. Transparency, depth and soundstage were excellent, but I use different equipment with MC's.

  2. #32
    Bigman80 Guest

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    The ZYX R100 was much better than the R50 but they aren't for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Strange. I found the opposite. Transparency, depth and soundstage were excellent, but I use different equipment with MC's.

  3. #33
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    You hit the nail on the head there Oliver. The Eroica LX offers an amazing sound for the price.

    I also had an Ortofon MC25FL which I was using at the same time, which had the edge on the Eroica, but not by much and of course, if the Ortofon was still made, you'd be paying around a grand for it now.

    As Richard says, the Eroica LX really 'boogies'!!

    The ZYX R50 Bloom outperforms both in my opinion, but all three are great MC's.

    The thing is, so many people get the front end wrong. You simply cannot get proper enjoyment of a nice MC unless the head-amp or SUT are suitably good and the phono stage needs to be equally decent.
    heard they stopped the mc25 because they were selling it too cheaply. they called it something else and changed the case
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  4. #34
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,853
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    heard they stopped the mc25 because they were selling it too cheaply. they called it something else and changed the case
    Yes, that is what I heard. Would be interested to know what the 're-housed' version is called.
    Barry

  5. #35
    Join Date: Jan 2017

    Location: Guernsey

    Posts: 119
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Boogie factor is difficult to define, are we talking dynamics and excitement or .........

    If it's dynamics and excitement, I heard a Lyra Clavis recently which really surprised me. It had a great sense of life and pace whilst retaining a great deal of transparency. I was very impressed.

    Alternatively, the AT ART7 has dynamics to spare but has a slightly warmer tone than the Lyra Clavis. Nothing wrong with that at all, just not sure which one would suit.

    Goldring had the stupid idea of pricing a genuine MC cartridge so low that people think it's a budget cart. It's far from it. I had one and preferred it to the AT33PTGII in most ways.
    Thanks for the pointers, I’ve read good things about Lyra, though never heard one. Yes I suppose by boogie factor I mean that it is really dynamic and exciting and gives my air guitar an outing! But then I like transparency too.
    I bought my LP12 from Cymbiosis who were brilliant. I am occasionally in their area on business and may simply ask them if I can listen to a few cartridges to gauge which manufacturer I like. Alternatively I could buy something secondhand on AoS and take a chance. Just don’t know what I should be looking for!
    Analogue: Linn LP12/Keel/Karmen/Karousel/Tranquility/Radikal/Trampolin 2/Collaro mat/Ekos SE/Audio Technica ART-1000 into Gold Note PH-10/PSU-10

    Digital: Cyrus CD XT Signature into Border Patrol SE DAC

    Amplification: Modwright LS36.5 pre into Modwright KW150SE

    Speakers: Boenicke W8

    Interconnects: Reference Fidelity Saturn and Oriton Orange Symphony

    Speaker Cabling: Townshend Isolda

    Headphones HD600

    Mains: Various MCRU kits/Russ Andrews Power Cords/X Block

    RCM: Velvet Vortex Ultrasonic

  6. #36
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Dynamic, transparent cartridges are the most expensive for a reason. Usually, there's a sacrifice between the desired traits.

    It will depend entirely on your taste and I guarantee you will buy a cart on someone's recommendation and think "what are they thinking!" My advice is to get out as much as possible and listen to as much as you can. Try and pick folks with similar systems if possible. Solid state or valve, as long as it's on the same idea you should be fine. It gets more confusing as more variables are introduced. You are welcome here for a listen to a Kontrapunkt b and an AT-ART7, which will be here on loan for a few weeks. May be difficult from your location

    Read as much as you can too. Lyra are very dynamic and transparent. If auditioning isn't always easy, I'd start there. Maybe a Delos.

    Just listen to as much choice as you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dickchy View Post
    Thanks for the pointers, I’ve read good things about Lyra, though never heard one. Yes I suppose by boogie factor I mean that it is really dynamic and exciting and gives my air guitar an outing! But then I like transparency too.
    I bought my LP12 from Cymbiosis who were brilliant. I am occasionally in their area on business and may simply ask them if I can listen to a few cartridges to gauge which manufacturer I like. Alternatively I could buy something secondhand on AoS and take a chance. Just don’t know what I should be looking for!

  7. #37
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Rugeley

    Posts: 300
    I'm Steve.

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    I haven't read through the many pages of answers. However, some on here may already know me to be a hifi enthusiast cum vintage audio equipment enthusiast who in the early 80s grew tired of the increasing shift of the genre towards one that embraced very subjective, often dubious, somewhat opinionated magazine reviews of hifi equipment in a way that frankly made it (hifi) also the domain of some who with little or no technical knowledge or experience swallowed every word and overnight seemingly became 'magazine well read' hifi experts able to talk lucidly and erm, knowledgeably on the subject. And that's why, in some cases, we now have very expensive, esoteric hifi components that simply are not worth the money when compared with others that have been produced based on 'feet on the floor', sound hifi engineering principles by people who truly know what they're talking about. In other words, if it's very expensive, hand polished, uses a rare type of wood and made in the Mojave desert by a bearded recluse who makes six a year, then it has to be good. That's the type of situation I'm alluding to.

    Back on track (pun not intended) I have never owned an expensive cartridge, so from an experience point of view I cannot comment in that respect. I have owned and used MM and MC cartridges of modest value. Certain high end cartridges use wooden housings. Assuming that at the prototype/pre-production stage an excellent sound was obtained, then given that no two pieces of wood are exactly the same in terms of density, resonant frequency, weight etc, then I have to doubt that subsequent production units would exhibit exactly the same results. And if you're taking about a high end, state of the art component, you would expect it to do just that; be as 'perfect' as the reference one. I doubt that it can. Secondly, a more general observation, once you get into the realms of very costly, hand made components, then at some point you hit the laws of diminishing returns. So does that £10,000 cartridge sound ten times better than a £1k one? of course not, and many would not be able to ID which was the most expensive one. I also think that when it comes to R&D - and hence products that truly reflect that research in their sonic capabilities - then the larger companies are often better equipped to undertake it than the one man operation who charges the earth for his hand crafted creations. And again, the larger companies will likely have a team (small or otherwise) of developers whose goals and methods are the result of collaboration rather than the sometimes single minded - and way off course - ideology that a misguided but well meaning individual may take.

    Are expensive cartridges worth it? In sonic terms I would say perhaps no, you could get equally satisfying results from a lower cost (not cheap!) cartridge. In terms of 'enjoyment gained', it could well be a resounding yes.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Jan 2017

    Location: Guernsey

    Posts: 119
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Dynamic, transparent cartridges are the most expensive for a reason. Usually, there's a sacrifice between the desired traits.

    It will depend entirely on your taste and I guarantee you will buy a cart on someone's recommendation and think "what are they thinking!" My advice is to get out as much as possible and listen to as much as you can. Try and pick folks with similar systems if possible. Solid state or valve, as long as it's on the same idea you should be fine. It gets more confusing as more variables are introduced. You are welcome here for a listen to a Kontrapunkt b and an AT-ART7, which will be here on loan for a few weeks. May be difficult from your location

    Read as much as you can too. Lyra are very dynamic and transparent. If auditioning isn't always easy, I'd start there. Maybe a Delos.

    Just listen to as much choice as you can.
    Thanks Oli. Would love to take you up on that but I live in the Channel Islands and don’t get to mainland UK that much. I did go to the WAM show at Kegworth last year which taught me a lot. I will go again next year but it’s a bit of a Hi Fi desert here, particularly for top end vinyl systems. Thanks for help.
    Analogue: Linn LP12/Keel/Karmen/Karousel/Tranquility/Radikal/Trampolin 2/Collaro mat/Ekos SE/Audio Technica ART-1000 into Gold Note PH-10/PSU-10

    Digital: Cyrus CD XT Signature into Border Patrol SE DAC

    Amplification: Modwright LS36.5 pre into Modwright KW150SE

    Speakers: Boenicke W8

    Interconnects: Reference Fidelity Saturn and Oriton Orange Symphony

    Speaker Cabling: Townshend Isolda

    Headphones HD600

    Mains: Various MCRU kits/Russ Andrews Power Cords/X Block

    RCM: Velvet Vortex Ultrasonic

  9. #39
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickchy View Post
    Thanks Oli. Would love to take you up on that but I live in the Channel Islands and don’t get to mainland UK that much. I did go to the WAM show at Kegworth last year which taught me a lot. I will go again next year but it’s a bit of a Hi Fi desert here, particularly for top end vinyl systems. Thanks for help.
    Well, if you're over this way, give me a shout!

  10. #40
    Join Date: Jan 2017

    Location: Guernsey

    Posts: 119
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Well, if you're over this way, give me a shout!
    Most certainly will do!
    Analogue: Linn LP12/Keel/Karmen/Karousel/Tranquility/Radikal/Trampolin 2/Collaro mat/Ekos SE/Audio Technica ART-1000 into Gold Note PH-10/PSU-10

    Digital: Cyrus CD XT Signature into Border Patrol SE DAC

    Amplification: Modwright LS36.5 pre into Modwright KW150SE

    Speakers: Boenicke W8

    Interconnects: Reference Fidelity Saturn and Oriton Orange Symphony

    Speaker Cabling: Townshend Isolda

    Headphones HD600

    Mains: Various MCRU kits/Russ Andrews Power Cords/X Block

    RCM: Velvet Vortex Ultrasonic

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