Here’s A Digital Conundrum

[alphaGT]

Exactly my point, bro. You're convinced it's the case, but you don't know it is.

I'm not claiming he's right, but a DAC designer with some repute says he's tried countless chips and he reckons they don't vary in sound much, quoting a 10% allocation in the overall sound quality of a DAC. I tend to believe him. But nothing more than that.

10% is quite a lot in terms of audio. But the reality is there are a dozen popular D/A chips out there, some cost more than others, and DAC designers have their favorites. All this is based on what’s inside the chip, not the analog circuits that follow. So engineers choose their favorites based on some criteria? If this waveform was so perfect that no one could possibly hear any difference, then it wouldn’t make any difference which chip you chose.

Russell

[Marco]

10% is quite a lot in terms of audio. But the reality is there are a dozen popular D/A chips out there, some cost more than others, and DAC designers have their favorites. All this is based on what’s inside the chip, not the analog circuits that follow. So engineers choose their favorites based on some criteria? If this waveform was so perfect that no one could possibly hear any difference, then it wouldn’t make any difference which chip you chose.

Precisely, Russell. That's what I mean by "implementation". It's the analogue circuits that follow, which make the biggest difference to the sound you hear!

Marco.

[Yomanze]

The DAC chip makes a huge difference IME. An analogy is like it being the cartridge, and the output stage being the phono stage.

The only reason multibit DACs aren’t really around anymore is because they are so expensive to produce, but look around and there are many current production units using them.

[Yomanze]

Don't buy an off the shelf chip for your Dac, be different and programme your own?
I know Stan's had interest this...

Chord Dave uses an FPGA

https://www.xilinx.com/products/sili...spartan-6.html

Or do what Soekris and ECDesigns are doing with FPGAs and design a discrete resistor array i.e. true multibit.

[Marco]

The DAC chip makes a huge difference IME. An analogy is like it being the cartridge, and the output stage being the phono stage.

The only reason multibit DACs aren’t really around anymore is because they are so expensive to produce, but look around and there are many current production units using them.

Yup, and to my ears they generally sound better than bitstream. So, for reference, could you link to any standalone DACS or CDPs produced now that are multi-bit?

Marco.

[Macca]

Schitt do a multibit DAC, not sure which one it is though.

[Yomanze]

Yup, and to my ears they generally sound better than bitstream. So, for reference, could you link to any standalone DACS or CDPs produced now that are multi-bit?

Marco.

DACs:

Audial Model S - https://www.audialonline.com/model-s/
Metrum Amethyst - https://metrumacoustics.com/product/...rum-acoustics/ (and I think all Metrum DACs too)
EC Designs Mosaic - https://www.ecdesigns.nl/mosaic-uv.html (discrete DAC design)
Soekris DAC 1541 - http://www.soekris.dk/dac1541.html (discrete DAC design)
Audio Note DAC 4.1x - http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/..._4.1x_01.shtml (IIRC all Audio Note DACs are multibit)
Zanden Model 5000 Signature - http://www.zandenaudio.com/product/m5000.php
Schiit Yggdrasil - http://www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil (some reports of glitching, might have been a faulty unit though...)

CD Player:

AMR CD-77 - http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/cd_individual.html

[alphaGT]

Precisely, Russell. That's what I mean by "implementation". It's the analogue circuits that follow, which make the biggest difference to the sound you hear!

Marco.

That is the exact opposite of what I just said. The engineer has designed his analog circuit, this doesn’t change, but he decides which chip he will put in front of it based on some criteria, he has a favorite, for some reason. If you ask him why he chose this chip, he will say, “because it sounds better”. He will rarely say, “it’s the cheapest and they all sound the same”.

Does the analog circuit have an even greater effect on the sound? Most likely. But that does not mean that the chip has no effect.

Russell


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Macca]

I suspect that cost, ease of implementation and availability are the three main factors that influence the choice of DAC chip.

Maybe with what reviewers and enthusiasts are saying is the current front runner bringing up the rear. No salesman wants to have to flog last year's DAC chip after all. You want to be selling what people are saying is the latest and greatest, or alternatively something from the distant past that has become legendary for no clearly established reason, like the TDA1540/41.

[Jimbo]

...providing that they use the same chipsets and technology. Otherwise, for me, no.

In that respect, there are distinct sonic differences between my vintage Sony DAS-R1, which uses multi-bit technology, with TDA-1541s, and a modern DAC using bitstream, with say, Burr-Browns.

Both have their plusses and minuses, but nothing does deep, chunky-sounding bass that you can almost CHEW, like well-implemented TDA-1541s

Marco.

Err FPGA chips can do.