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Thread: Can SE amps play Rage Against The Machine

  1. #11
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    Absolutely they can but quite possibly not how you'd like it to sound


  2. #12
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    Actually, whilst I completely agree with all the comments emphasising the importance of speaker and amp matching, I think Shaun (Haselsh1) also makes a very valid point. I have Rage Against the Machine's eponymous debut album and on my non-horn and non-single ended amp system it sounds incredibly tight and punchy. Now a very sensitive horn system with SET amps will certainly go as loud as it does at my house but it will present the music in a quite different way.
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  3. #13
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    A good push-pull solid state/ or valve amps ability to stop and start when needed, is a huge act to follow where conventional Single ended amps are concerned, However; you can get close with single ended, whilest still maintaning most of the virtues we associate with good single ended amps.
    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    Actually, whilst I completely agree with all the comments emphasising the importance of speaker and amp matching, I think Shaun (Haselsh1) also makes a very valid point. I have Rage Against the Machine's eponymous debut album and on my non-horn and non-single ended amp system it sounds incredibly tight and punchy. Now a very sensitive horn system with SET amps will certainly go as loud as it does at my house but it will present the music in a quite different way.
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  4. #14
    Join Date: Oct 2008

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    Mines is a non commercial SET power amp built by Nick Gorham, so other than giving Nick an idea of your budget and have him build you one (best sound for your budget and way better than a commercial amp for same price imo), cant really recommend any, sorry!
    Good SET amps don't come cheap unfortunately, but I've heard the World Audio Design amps are pretty good?

    There's an old argument in the valve amp world between Push-Pull and SET, with fans of both types.
    SET amps don't do rock, and Push-Pull doesn't do vocals as good as SET.
    As always with these things, it ain't necessarily so.

    Can speak to SET amps doing rock so its bollocks!



    Quote Originally Posted by jahsavage View Post
    There is nothing like a spiked question to start some debate but to my mind good HiFi should be able to express all the emotions from passion to anger but many systems seem to focus solely upon passion and forget the other emotions. I'm pleased to learn there are SE amps out there that are not all sugar but can you please name them so I can have a listen myself - thanks.

    Loudness The physical strength and amplitude of a sound - Intensity, power, or anger
    Melody The linear succession of musical tones that the listener perceives as a single entity - Complementing harmonies: happiness, relaxation, serenity. Clashing harmonies: excitement, anger, unpleasantness.
    Tempo The speed or pace of a musical piece - Fast tempo:happiness, excitement, anger. Slow tempo: sadness, serenity.
    Mode The type of scale - Major tonality: happiness, joy, Minor tonality: sadness.
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  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    I play what I call real world music, which is; a bit of everything, and My Soul Single ended amps cope quite well, ask anyone who's heard them
    But I agree, you have to partner things well, and that goes for all types of amplification!
    A...
    "Quite well" is an understatement, however, as you well know, their design is far from conventional, with them featuring the rather novel solid-state aspect of things. Also, if someone wanted a pair of monos built today, how much would you be asking, something like £15 grand?

    That would be out of most people's price range, although they'd be getting a pair of amps, which if produced, say, by someone such as AudioNote, would retail for probably £50k! And yours would almost certainly sound better.

    My point being, however, (and indeed as Gaz has also said, which I know you too will agree with) is that the best valve amps, either SET or push-pull, simply don't come cheap, as you can't get away with cutting corners, like you can with some SS amps.

    Ultimately, everything revolves around the size and quality of the transformers, and in general, good valve amps are also more labour intensive to build, especially those that are hardwired, point to point!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

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  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    Now a very sensitive horn system with SET amps will certainly go as loud as it does at my house but it will present the music in a quite different way.
    Indeed, but presenting the music differently is quite a different thing from being 'able to rock', or not. The point is, that the best valve amps, SET or push-pull, when used with the right speakers, don't lack 'grunt' - far from it!

    One thing I would say though about the P/P vs. SET thing, is that I always prefer having a good few watts in reserve (at least into double figures), in order to prevent my amp(s) 'running out of steam', when/if used in more demanding environments than they're normally used to.

    It's like hsving a car with a big engine: that sense of 'effortlessness', when driving at high speeds, is invaluable. It always pays to have ample reserves of power - and that applies to amps as much as it does engines.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #17
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    All the systems I have heard with SET amps and big horn speakers have been useless at doing rock recordings. Like a transistor radio sort of sound.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    It's unusual, but the bottom line with anything is how well what's used has been implemented, and in that respect, the best designers can often make good sounds from a cheap collection of parts. Ultimately, it's all about experience and know-how.

    However, in your example, you could pretty much guarantee that if the transformers used were replaced for higher quality versions of the same electrical value, the sound would be even better!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    All the systems I have heard with SET amps and big horn speakers have been useless at doing rock recordings. Like a transistor radio sort of sound.
    There are other types of high-efficiency speakers available, than simply out-and-out horns. Tannoy DCs, for example, or the Eddingdales that Gaz uses

    Either of which will 'rock da house', in a reasonable sized room, with a good SET amp.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Getting plenty of volume out of a horn/SET system isn't really problem. Getting rock music to play loudly without becoming a confused mess is where SETs fall down, in my experience. Maybe there are SETs that will do it and I just haven't experienced them, but I would advise the OP to hear for himself before parting with any cash.
    In theory you can do it with very sensitive speakers, which is what everyone seems to be saying. I've got a low power valve amp and use it with 96db efficiency speakers but it will not go to the SPL I require for rock music without getting a little 'messy'

    To go above that you need proper horn loading and then you introduce a whole new raft of problems with colouration unless it is a multi-way system.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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