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Thread: Can SE amps play Rage Against The Machine

  1. #71
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 79
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjs View Post
    SE valve amp and rock music? Border Patrol
    The S20 or pp P20 will work a treat with the LV speakers

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    I had that very setup with WE300B and a silver wired hot rodded version of the P20 - this might be ok for Fleetwood Mac but RATM come over like Cliff Richard. Only when I added the Icon Audio mb90s did I get real rock.
    Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
    Out here we is stoned, immaculate
    The WASP - The Doors

  2. #72
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Paul,

    Just like to say, I admire your open-minded and methodical approach to finding the amp you're looking for. I hope you find it eventually and that it all works out well

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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  3. #73
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: The New Forest

    Posts: 1,855
    I'm Steve.

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    As both a SET amp user and Silicon power amp user I feel it is my duty to weigh in

    As Macca pointed out I use 3 SET amps on each of the mid, upper mid and ribbon tweeter driver channels.
    Why? Because for those drivers they are a good match. 118 / 116 / 111dB per watt a 5w SET amp is sweet sounding, fast and quite, quite loud enough. Low damping factor is not an issue with super light, fast compression driver diaphragms.

    The reason I would not go any where near a SET let alone a PP on the mid bass (JBL 2220 15" drivers with low Q values in FL horns) or the sub bass tapped FL horns (Eminence 15" LFII drivers) is simply to get the control needed at anything like reasonable cost, you need a high damping factor from the amplifier.

    A typical push pull amp has around 25 damping factor.

    SETs are lower still.
    Several kilovolt tubes might do it but at what cost and danger

    The 200w Crown amp on the mid bass horn channel has a damping factor of >150 (from memory).

    On sub bass channel I have a big Cewin Vega power amp, damping factor 280!

    These are very different amps to the ones I used at Scalford on the bass duty.. they were 80w T amps.

    Now, use those high damping factor amps on the upper channels and it sounds very mediocre. Complete mismatch.

    The high damping factor controls the bass cones effortlessly, giving that start/stop you need for tight high impact / fast bass you want for certain music types.

    If you go to a live event with any kind of sound reinforcement you will be listening to the bass using similar drivers (just many of) and huge, high damping factor amps.
    Things like the JBL Vertec stacks etc.

    My bass channels are 110dB/w and 105dB/w btw. So not exactly power sapping but they need control. Control a SET amp just can't cost effectively provide.

    Do the big amps sound any good?
    Well, yes at the frequencies I'm using them at they work just fine. Mid bass frequencies are 90 to 330Hz and sub horns below 20 to 90Hz.
    These are flat, 0dB responses btw. No bass roll off. In fact I like a bit more ommph at 18-25Hz for that huge room reverb Church organ experience

    Crossover slopes also play a roll in giving a good controlled bass sounds.
    Hence I use an excellent quality active DSP pre / crossover. Again not present at Scalford. Things have moved on a fair bit since then.

    I've have comparatively small room, things are tuned to my tastes across all frequencies.
    Never over powering, delicate and fast, brutal, deep and fast as required.

    Escaping the one amp, one speaker, fixed designed crossover, one size fits all, was liberating to say the least.

    For horn systems and hybrid ones too, driven by one amp it invariably means L-pads.
    The horn tweeter is so much more efficient than the passive radiating cone.
    These sap dynamics ime - even using the highest quality film resistors.

    Hybrid speakers like Tannoys can be bi-amped (modify the X/O's), enabling a nice SET amp to drive the horn tweeter and another amp, PP or other of choice for the bass.
    You can even go active
    Last edited by Magna Audio; 09-06-2018 at 18:45.
    System: Turntable : SP10 MKII slate plinth, Custom Ebony tonearm board, Arm : Fidelity Research FR64s, Cartridge : SPU Royal N. SUT : Lundahl 1:13. Phonostage : Icon Audio, Streaming RPi/Kali reclocker -> I2S -> DSP XO / Pre / 4 DAC's : WAF Najda, 5 Poweramps : 3 x EL84 SET's, 2 x D class amps on bass channels, Speakers : 5 way front loaded horn system: 2 X Tapped sub 15" LF drivers / 2 X Exponential mid bass 15" drivers / Tractrix 200Hz mid horns with JBL2482's, / Tractrix 550Hz upper wooden horns with factory refurb'd Vitavox S2's / Raal Lazy Ribbons as high frequency tweeters. Wires: good silver or good copper where best suited. DIY RCM.

    Maker of tonearm boards, armpods, Tannoy GRF style speaker cabinets, horn speakers, counterweights and more.
    For more information about my creations and products please click below

    http://fosworld.wixsite.com/magna-audio & on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/magna_audio/

  4. #74
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 79
    I'm Paul.

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    Hi Magna Audio,

    Many thanks for your detailed description of your system, reminds me of the Haute-Fidelite shops I used to visit when I lived in Paris. I would love to hear it one day but for now I'll use the pictures to scare the wife.
    Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
    Out here we is stoned, immaculate
    The WASP - The Doors

  5. #75
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: The New Forest

    Posts: 1,855
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jahsavage View Post
    Hi Magna Audio,

    Many thanks for your detailed description of your system, reminds me of the Haute-Fidelite shops I used to visit when I lived in Paris. I would love to hear it one day but for now I'll use the pictures to scare the wife.
    Hehe,
    It's probably a lot more down to earth looking than boutique hifi.

    The thing with prototyping is you don't know if a particular evolution is just a stepping stone to something greater or the optimum possible for the money / space / tech available.
    So not much point in making it too swanky looking.

    I've got the basics right for my tastes, have for some time now, and have not changed them in several years.
    There have been tweaks though and next up I'm looking at improving the music server side of things.

    Scare away

    If you are ever in the area, you'd be welcome to have a listen.
    System: Turntable : SP10 MKII slate plinth, Custom Ebony tonearm board, Arm : Fidelity Research FR64s, Cartridge : SPU Royal N. SUT : Lundahl 1:13. Phonostage : Icon Audio, Streaming RPi/Kali reclocker -> I2S -> DSP XO / Pre / 4 DAC's : WAF Najda, 5 Poweramps : 3 x EL84 SET's, 2 x D class amps on bass channels, Speakers : 5 way front loaded horn system: 2 X Tapped sub 15" LF drivers / 2 X Exponential mid bass 15" drivers / Tractrix 200Hz mid horns with JBL2482's, / Tractrix 550Hz upper wooden horns with factory refurb'd Vitavox S2's / Raal Lazy Ribbons as high frequency tweeters. Wires: good silver or good copper where best suited. DIY RCM.

    Maker of tonearm boards, armpods, Tannoy GRF style speaker cabinets, horn speakers, counterweights and more.
    For more information about my creations and products please click below

    http://fosworld.wixsite.com/magna-audio & on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/magna_audio/

  6. #76
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 79
    I'm Paul.

    Smile Almarro A318B

    After 10 months of searching I eventually located an Almarro A318B, I bought it via ebay and had to import it from Oz. It arrived with a broken preamp tube but fortunately I had a spare. After replacing it the amp appeared to function but I soon realized only one of the two heaters functioned on one of the large 6C33Bs tubes.

    After taking the back panel off I discovered one set of heater wires near the tube base have been subjust to extreme heat and had melted a little. Fearing the transformer was damages I poked around trying to locate a good monitoring point and discovered a poor connection to the anode. After a quick resolder I was back in business but the sound was not quite right. I next spent more on interconnects than on the amp to solve excessive brightness. Now I'm in audio heaven especially for live music and jazz. For rock its as good as my Icon Audio mb90s and so the answer to my question is definitive yes.

    Thanks to everyone for their input.

    Next step is to upgrade the amp by using Jupiter capcitors in the signal path.

    PS Written while listening to RATM
    Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
    Out here we is stoned, immaculate
    The WASP - The Doors

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