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Thread: A Glue For Smoothing Down 5mm Of Corner Veneer?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 35,720
    I'm Geoff.

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    You are correct Andrew.

    If using PVA, just put a flat block on top and then weigh it down with something heavy and leave overnight. Cut a piece of plastic carrier bag and lay it between the speaker and block, otherwise the block may stick to the speaker. The carrier bag won't.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: Happy Cheshire

    Posts: 613
    I'm Duncan.

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    I have some Oak veneer going buckshee.

    4 x 1000mm x 400mm couple of splits
    4 x 810mm x 400mm good
    2 x 810mm x 285mm couple of splits
    2 x 390mm x 285mm ish

    I bought this for a loudspeaker project that I didn't finish.





    Last edited by tubehunter; 22-05-2018 at 09:33.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: The New Forest

    Posts: 1,154
    I'm Steve.

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    I'll weigh in here.
    Doing real wood veneering using proper cold press PVA glue and a vacuum press is one thing..
    I do it from time to time. The bond is better than the wood grain itself..

    If it's iron on vinyl (agree with the above, that it sounds like it is if it bends), then the glue used won't have been PVA.
    PVA won't stick to plastics or other hard glues very well at all.
    It works by seeping deep into the wood fibres like roots, and that needs to be on both surfaces, i.e. wood to wood.

    If it's vinyl or wood veneer that's glue backed, then an epoxy or even super glue (a slow setting one) would be better.

    If it's wood to wood then Yes to PVA. Not one of your School's paper & general purpose ones etc PVA but a proper woodworking PVA - Titebond for example.

    Yes press it down with a flat block and clamp / weight. I use a sheet of Grease proof paper or better still Baking parchment under the block to prevent the block getting stuck.
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  4. #14
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 45,219
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minstrel SE View Post
    Thanks everyone. Ah yes I will get my old 9 mp camera on macro mode. Give me some time as Ive been out in the sun today and have a headache from the beer

    A moment of pure carelessness and bye bye sharp veneered corner

    I have just taken some shots and an uploading them to imgur at the moment...links to follow

    https://imgur.com/EHU0Q5k

    https://imgur.com/hcXrwVn

    https://imgur.com/sP6jqH4

    https://imgur.com/vhwtYXG

    https://imgur.com/f7y0rSt

    https://imgur.com/8JxzUOb


    Pick a picture and the ones without the flash make it look less dramatic. Its not too bad and Ive probably lifted some of the mdf with the veneer. I should not have peeled the veneer back as it had only slammed about 1mm of the top veneer corner down...Ive given myself extra work to do now and I know that.

    The cabinet isnt out of alignment there..for some reason there is shaved out area on both units giving a lip on the back corner join. The veneer is not peeling down the side edge and that just seems to be the flash.

    I can see getting under there with a needle to smooth surfaces and spread glue. It could be one of those things that never looks right again but I will give it a damn good go and take my time

    The filler can be painted with black acrylic at the back. Im a bit sick of black ash but I will eventually get a pair veneered in oak or something similar
    looking at pics it seems it is the chipboard base that has given in and come away with the outer skin, which may well be vinyl. a little gentle removal of some of the fibres so it will go back down flush, and still have enough room for the glue will sort it.. you could always stain the glue before adding. think if both sides of damage is wood the some pva will sort it.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  5. #15
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 552
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    Hi,

    My instinct would be to try to get between the veneer and board with a scalpel blade to remove a little of the board before putting in the glue, just thinking that the veneer my sit a little "proud" if space isn't made for the fresh glue. PVA would be my choice, and clamp overnight.
    Finish off with a Liberon wax filler stick - range of colours available and did a good job filling in the lid marks on my LP12 plinth.
    Yes I shouldnt have peeled it back and I will have to get a tiny amount of material out with something like a scalpel or needles.

    I shouldnt have lifted what was stuck down as they dont sit back correctly without preparation. Once the surfaces have been parted they wont necessarily sit back smoothly. At the moment it wont smooth correctly with a block or hand pressure

    Ooze out wont be a problem as I will mask the back area and the back suround is the chipboard which can be lightly sanded with a sanding stick and touched up in black.

    I appreciate your input but everyone mentions pva as if I can clamp that. I cant see any way of clamping it but I may try pva and that doesnt work I can spend time preparing it again for a different glue. Then again this is a thick vinyl and small area so a heavy duty tacky fast drying glue is seems way more suitable

    Its not the end of the world but I have been quoted 500 for an oak or teak re-veneer which is too pricey. Maybe its time to learn about veneering and start a proper project

    Cheers
    Martin
    Last edited by Minstrel SE; 22-05-2018 at 14:14.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 552
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tubehunter View Post
    I have some Oak veneer going buckshee.

    4 x 1000mm x 400mm couple of splits
    4 x 810mm x 400mm good
    2 x 810mm x 285mm couple of splits
    2 x 390mm x 285mm ish

    I bought this for a loudspeaker project that I didn't finish.
    Thanks thats very tempting and just the sort of veneer I was thinking about. Ive seen packages of veneer on ebay. Im not ready at the moment. Let me see about tarting up this damage and then I might buy another couple of tatty cabinets and start a veneering project.

    I put my mistakes right and if that takes a whole new veneering project then so be it...its only money

  7. #17
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 552
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    If I'm not very much mistaken, that isn't veneer at all - it's a vinyl wrap. Wooden veneer won't "peel back", it will just snap off.

    PVA wood glue is extremely strong, so there's no need to worry about that. It has the advantage of being water soluble so it's easy to wipe off any ooze-out. PVA would be my choice.
    Yes as its quite tough thick and hasnt snapped. Its a thick wrap but as you say it will be a vinyl wrap.

    It seems a good quality wrap but probably no different to the wrap you see on Diamonds or any speaker of that time. Ive seen cheaper wraps in my time looking like Blue peter sticky backed plastic

    With my own delusion I like to think he has put proper ash on there and painted it black

    Oh the shame of having to admit to chipboard and vinyl wrap
    Last edited by Minstrel SE; 22-05-2018 at 14:15.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 552
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magna Audio View Post
    I'll weigh in here.
    Doing real wood veneering using proper cold press PVA glue and a vacuum press is one thing..
    I do it from time to time. The bond is better than the wood grain itself..

    If it's iron on vinyl (agree with the above, that it sounds like it is if it bends), then the glue used won't have been PVA.
    PVA won't stick to plastics or other hard glues very well at all.
    It works by seeping deep into the wood fibres like roots, and that needs to be on both surfaces, i.e. wood to wood.

    If it's vinyl or wood veneer that's glue backed, then an epoxy or even super glue (a slow setting one) would be better.

    If it's wood to wood then Yes to PVA. Not one of your School's paper & general purpose ones etc PVA but a proper woodworking PVA - Titebond for example.

    Yes press it down with a flat block and clamp / weight. I use a sheet of Grease proof paper or better still Baking parchment under the block to prevent the block getting stuck.
    Yes I do think it will take an araldite type mix based on that I cant clamp it and pva may not be ideal in this instance.

    I welcome everybodys input and dont think Im wrong in what this may need. Its a small area and Im not really getting a wood to wood bond. Im going to be left with the vinyl backing with a fine layer of disturbed chipboard to bond it to.

    Its just not a big enough area to let pva soak in and clamp. Ive used pva on wood frames I made but backed up with pin tacking. At the moment I just have a craft and schools type pva nd I have no confidence in that stuff.

    Ive seen titebond and I think it will take some seriously good glue.

    Pva will not have been used on this vinyl...it was probably some iron on veneer glue.

    I dont have enough experience with pva to be confident in its different forms. I know what araldite and epoxy does and that would seem more suitable here as a fast drying option while I hold it. There seems no problem with ooze out if I have masked and wipe off excess quickly. there is only going to be a very small amount of glue spread under there

    I have the time but of course trial and error can be very limited when dealing with glues and surfaces
    Last edited by Minstrel SE; 22-05-2018 at 14:16.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 1,242
    I'm Andrew.

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    It isn't really an "iron on" veneer, it's a pre-veneered board. What they use at the factory to bond the veneer, I don't really know, but these cabinets haven't been constructed from chipboard and then "veneered" - they have been made from pre-veneered board.

    You might be making more of this job than is necessary. Just scrape away some of the crumbly stuff, get some PVA in there, put a block over it and weigh it down with a brick.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 45,219
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tubehunter View Post
    I have some Oak veneer going buckshee.

    4 x 1000mm x 400mm couple of splits
    4 x 810mm x 400mm good
    2 x 810mm x 285mm couple of splits
    2 x 390mm x 285mm ish

    I bought this for a loudspeaker project that I didn't finish.





    that will still do a nice set of standmounts duncan. worth keeping. not fit for it now or would be after it myself
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D DARBEE - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/EMOTIVA XPS1/12V BATTERY - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP\WE TUBED - TWIN AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTHS - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER24, SPOTIFY - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - RPI/AUDIOPHONICS/5V BATTERY - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN/Q ACOUSTIC BT3/CANTON SUB - P.INSPIRED MAINS REGENERATED.

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