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Thread: Do mains cables make a difference??

  1. #141
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, but your putting far too much faith in the idea that 'accepted wisdom is wrong'...
    Not at all. I'm simply putting faith in the ability of my judgment criteria (and ears), when assessing the efficacy of 'fancy mains leads', to reveal (for me) the truth, which sometimes contradicts 'accepted wisdom'. That's quite different from what you're implying.

    And that's in general terms, in the specific field of audio electronics the chance of their being some amazing thing that we did not know about is effectively zero.
    It's not about the existence of "some amazing thing"... That's just sensationalist nonsense.

    The explanation for the phenomenon in question is far likelier to be much simpler than that, and probably just a case of looking at things differently [thinking 'outside of the box'] and measuring/assessing what needs to be measured/assessed, with apparatus capable of accurately doing so, rather than applying the wrong tool, for the wrong job, or perhaps investigating the wrong area completely, which is partly what I think the problem is.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #142
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, but your putting far too much faith in the idea that 'accepted wisdom is wrong'...
    Plus, if we're talking about putting too much faith in something, then I'd contend that folk place WAY too much faith in the veracity of 'accepted wisdom', and what is deemed as true by basic electrical theory (when applied to matters such as we're discussing), which is one of the reasons why so little progress has been made in verifying some of audio's, shall we say, more 'contentious' subjective claims!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #143
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: South East Cornwall

    Posts: 322
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I think the point of placebos is that you don't know if it's a placebo or not. Same with expectation bias - you're unaware of it.
    After a lovely cup of coffee and thinking about it some more, I simply cannot believe that placebo can enter into my hobby and passion while I am unaware of it.

    Placebo is a purely medical term, whereby a patient is administered a treatment or medication that has no effect whatsoever, yet the patient has been told that an effective one has been administered and shows signs of recovery of their ailment.

    Transferring that same scenario into my hobby and passion is complete bollocks, unless of course a dealer breaks into my home and relieves me of a lot of money for a hugely expensive mains cable he says he has just installed (even though in reality he has done no such thing) and it will sound truly awesome, the best upgrade ever. Lo, I now suffer from the placebo effect and good to his word this new cable sounds awesome, just as he said it would.

    I am starting to bristle . . . . . . .
    CD player = Marantz CD6006
    DAC/pre = Rotel RC 1572
    Power amp = ADA PF201
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

  4. #144
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    I place a lot of credence in the "wife immediately heard the difference from the kitchen" statement, because how unprompted and how unsolicited a statement do you need or want?
    Indeed. Whilst I don't sign up to the notion of mains cables making DRAMATIC differences to the sound of hi-fi equipment, if the difference is marked enough [better or worse] to cause one's partner, who up until then was completely unaware of what was going on, but who was otherwise familiar with the sound of the system in question, to comment accordingly, then chances are there's something in it.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #145
    Join Date: Aug 2010

    Location: East Midlands

    Posts: 426
    I'm Hugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    Placebo is a purely medical term, whereby a patient is administered a treatment or medication that has no effect whatsoever, yet the patient has been told that an effective one has been administered and shows signs of recovery of their ailment.

    Transferring that same scenario into my hobby and passion is complete bollocks...
    'Placebo' is indeed a purely medical term, however 'The Placebo Effect' is not. I hesitate to use the word 'bollocks' to describe the above. I did consider 'nonsense', but I'll settle for 'ill-informed'.

  6. #146
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Surely expectation bias can compensate for placebo effect? A 'win-win' situation all round.

  7. #147
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: South East Cornwall

    Posts: 322
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Complete bollocks? Consider this scenario:
    Someone pays £120 for a mains cable to replace a freebie. The sales literature tells him he's going to hear a wider soundstage, more dynamics etc. In reality it's just an ordinary mains cable with some braided sleaving over the cable and a name printed on it. How is that different from being given a chalk/sugar pill and being told it's a revolutionary new antibiotic?
    If I paid £120 for a mains cable to replace a 'freebie' and I heard no difference at all it would be going back - pronto. The average person would do the same hopefully.

    There are 2 clear distinctions in the two scenarios. In the medical scenario the person telling the patient he/she has been administered a certain treatment must be someone who the patient trusts or has the appropriate authority. The janitor will not do.

    No sales literature yet devised will convince me there is a wider soundstage and more dynamics when there isn't and god bless the trades description act lol. I don't trust doctors, let alone anyone involved in selling within the hi-fi industry.

    I learned my painful lesson with QED silver anniversary speaker cable which was complete SHITE, yet the reviews were glowing five stars and dealers were pushing it at every opportunity.
    CD player = Marantz CD6006
    DAC/pre = Rotel RC 1572
    Power amp = ADA PF201
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

  8. #148
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    I learned my painful lesson with QED silver anniversary speaker cable which was complete SHITE, yet the reviews were glowing five stars and dealers were pushing it at every opportunity.
    Some people like it................god knows why.

  9. #149
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: South East Cornwall

    Posts: 322
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by narabdela View Post
    'Placebo' is indeed a purely medical term, however 'The Placebo Effect' is not. I hesitate to use the word 'bollocks' to describe the above. I did consider 'nonsense', but I'll settle for 'ill-informed'.
    Apologies for that word - the thesaurus didn't recognise an alternative.

    I see even the placebo effect only being active with another person involved. I cannot placebo myself in the true sense of the word.
    CD player = Marantz CD6006
    DAC/pre = Rotel RC 1572
    Power amp = ADA PF201
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

  10. #150
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Just to comment quickly on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    As for the Hifiwigwam home test, it was insisted upon that FOUR cables would be sent out and even the three bog standard "kettle leads" were all different...
    Indeed. "Identical" *must* mean IDENTICAL, even to the point of the solder used to make the necessary connections, and how well that was done, otherwise the test is null and void, and thus could potentially have explained why people heard differences between supposedly "identical power leads".

    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin
    Given the fact that all of these ABX tests have failed, why is it always assumed the item under test has failed and not the test regime itself that has failed?
    Because it doesn't suit the objectivist agenda!

    Plus, people will always believe what they want to believe [usually in whatever is least likely to cause them the distress of questioning what they've always considered as true], and that fact applies to 'non-believers' in 'fancy mains leads', just as much as it does the opposite.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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