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Thread: Do mains cables make a difference??

  1. #151
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Surely expectation bias can compensate for placebo effect? A 'win-win' situation all round.

  2. #152
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: Cornwall

    Posts: 55
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Complete bollocks? Consider this scenario:
    Someone pays £120 for a mains cable to replace a freebie. The sales literature tells him he's going to hear a wider soundstage, more dynamics etc. In reality it's just an ordinary mains cable with some braided sleaving over the cable and a name printed on it. How is that different from being given a chalk/sugar pill and being told it's a revolutionary new antibiotic?
    If I paid £120 for a mains cable to replace a 'freebie' and I heard no difference at all it would be going back - pronto. The average person would do the same hopefully.

    There are 2 clear distinctions in the two scenarios. In the medical scenario the person telling the patient he/she has been administered a certain treatment must be someone who the patient trusts or has the appropriate authority. The janitor will not do.

    No sales literature yet devised will convince me there is a wider soundstage and more dynamics when there isn't and god bless the trades description act lol. I don't trust doctors, let alone anyone involved in selling within the hi-fi industry.

    I learned my painful lesson with QED silver anniversary speaker cable which was complete SHITE, yet the reviews were glowing five stars and dealers were pushing it at every opportunity.
    CD player = Vincent
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  3. #153
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

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    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    There are 2 clear distinctions in the two scenarios. In the medical scenario the person telling the patient he/she has been administered a certain treatment must be someone who the patient trusts or has the appropriate authority. The janitor will not do.

    No sales literature yet devised will convince me there is a wider soundstage and more dynamics when there isn't and god bless the trades description act lol. I don't trust doctors, let alone anyone involved in selling within the hi-fi industry.
    Now I'm confused. Are you saying the placebo effect cannot exist in the world of hi-fi sales, or that you personally are immune to it?
    I think that hi-fi magazine reviewers, sales people etc. constitute people with authority in many consumers' eyes.

  4. #154
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    I learned my painful lesson with QED silver anniversary speaker cable which was complete SHITE, yet the reviews were glowing five stars and dealers were pushing it at every opportunity.
    Some people like it................god knows why.

  5. #155
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: Cornwall

    Posts: 55
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by narabdela View Post
    'Placebo' is indeed a purely medical term, however 'The Placebo Effect' is not. I hesitate to use the word 'bollocks' to describe the above. I did consider 'nonsense', but I'll settle for 'ill-informed'.
    Apologies for that word - the thesaurus didn't recognise an alternative.

    I see even the placebo effect only being active with another person involved. I cannot placebo myself in the true sense of the word.
    CD player = Vincent
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  6. #156
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Just to comment quickly on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    As for the Hifiwigwam home test, it was insisted upon that FOUR cables would be sent out and even the three bog standard "kettle leads" were all different...
    Indeed. "Identical" *must* mean IDENTICAL, even to the point of the solder used to make the necessary connections, and how well that was done, otherwise the test is null and void, and thus could potentially have explained why people heard differences between supposedly "identical power leads".

    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin
    Given the fact that all of these ABX tests have failed, why is it always assumed the item under test has failed and not the test regime itself that has failed?
    Because it doesn't suit the objectivist agenda!

    Plus, people will always believe what they want to believe [usually in whatever is least likely to cause them the distress of questioning what they've always considered as true], and that fact applies to 'non-believers' in 'fancy mains leads', just as much as it does the opposite.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  7. #157
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Because it doesn't suit the objectivist agenda!

    Marco.
    HoHo. So true!

  8. #158
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: Cornwall

    Posts: 55
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Now I'm confused. Are you saying the placebo effect cannot exist in the world of hi-fi sales, or that you personally are immune to it?
    I think that hi-fi magazine reviewers, sales people etc. constitute people with authority in many consumers' eyes.
    I can only speak for myself of course. My take on placebo (or placebo effect) is that it needs another party to impose/inflict/whatever the condition upon me - I cannot generate or have the placebo effect on my own.

    If people place their trust in magazine reviews and dealers then that is their individual choice. Both of these parties stand to gain from their recommendations to you the reader and you must use some wisdom in your dealings.

    Paying £120 for a fancy upgrade mains cable that is a freebie dressed up to look the part is duping people, not triggering a placebo event.
    CD player = Vincent
    Pre amp = Rotel RA03
    Power amp = Lyngdorf SDA 2175
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

  9. #159
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

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    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    Paying £120 for a fancy upgrade mains cable that is a freebie dressed up to look the part is duping people, not triggering a placebo event.
    Yes, indeed an ordinary cable dressed-up as something fancy would be duping people. I'd say that hearing a difference could well be due to a placebo effect or expectation bias.

  10. #160
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: Cornwall

    Posts: 55
    I'm Dominic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Just to comment quickly on this:



    Indeed. "Identical" *must* mean IDENTICAL, even to the point of the solder used to make the necessary connections, and how well that was done, otherwise the test is null and void, and thus could have explained why people heard differences between supposedly "identical power leads".



    Because it doesn't suit the objectivist agenda!

    Plus, people always believe what they want to believe [in whatever is least likely to cause them the distress of questioning what they've always thought to be true], and that fact applies to 'non-believers' in fancy mains leads, just as much as it does to the opposite.

    Marco.
    After the wigwam test the objectivists were once again jumping for joy at the inconclusive result. It never crossed their minds that the test itself was flawed and not one jot of true objectivism was present. Still, it massaged their smugness for a week or two, bless them
    CD player = Vincent
    Pre amp = Rotel RA03
    Power amp = Lyngdorf SDA 2175
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

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