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Thread: Do mains cables make a difference??

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    An interesting conjecture. I suppose it is not impossible but it does seem very unlikely to be true. Whereas the psychological explanation is highly likely to be true.
    That's fair enough. At which point though, do you simply trust your ears and believe what you heard was true, lest you go through life in a permanent state of doubt, shunning the existence of everything that can't be 'proven', and as a result learning nothing new?

    All that does is stifle progress.

    Marco.
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    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Now to send you really round the bend with this subject. Try a 4mm sq mains cable on your power amps and your preamp, then swap the preamp to a 2.5mm sq mains cable (shielded of course) and listen to the difference. My preamp sounded worse with a 4mm sq cable than a 2.5mm cable.

    What's going on there?
    Lol, I've ventured far enough into this rabbit hole. £60 for a mains cable is about as far as I'm willing to go so I'm going to trust your findings implicitly
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Wizard Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I've no doubt that some of the differences I have heard in interconnects or speaker cables have been imaginary. But it is possible for those things to sound different, you can deliberately make them sound different. Not only that but plenty of people have passed ABX tests on these items.

    They are conveying the signal that you are eventually going to hear, the mains cable isn't. You are comparing apples and oranges.
    Not really. In my experience, *everything* in a hi-fi system matters (and therefore potentially makes a difference), so I'd no sooner use 'freebie interconnects' or bell wire, than I would a poorly designed and constructed mains lead, which for me isn't fit for purpose.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  4. #114
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That's fair enough. At which point though, do you simply trust your ears and believe what you heard was true, lest you go through life in a permanent state of doubt, shunning the existence of everything that can't be 'proven', and as a result learning nothing new?

    All that does is stifle progress.

    Marco.
    On the contrary I'd say that jumping to the wrong conclusions about cause and effect is the worst possible thing for progress. If you don't know how it works then you can't improve on it, except by chance.

    There's plenty of times that a difference is pretty obvious and there's no question that the sound has changed. Then there's those occasions where we think we hear a subtle change. It's only in those latter situations that we have to question what we think we hear. Especially if there is no credible reason for there being any change.

    We have to acknowledge that we can be fooled by our senses because it is a fact that we can be.

    To me that is the practical and realistic approach. Imagination Land is not a good place to be putting a hi-fi system together or doing anything else, for that matter.
    Martin



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  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    I like disagreements and contra opinions because they can be very fertile thinking grounds provided they are discussed rationally with an end purpose...
    Me too, and in that respect I'm enjoying your contributions so far

    There is no argument from me that the average domestic situation can contain all sorts of undesirable 'radiations' like wi-fi, mobile phone signals, cordless phones and mains borne crap from central heatng and washing machines, etc., but the average wi-fi system operates at milliwatt levels, so too does cordless phones and my thinking says they would have to be many hundreds of times stronger to actually energise a mains cable with 240 volts AC already residing there.
    Your thinking in that instance may be right, but that doesn't necessarily mean that mains leads aren't acting in some other way as a conduit for interference, which is ultimately detrimental to the sound of your hi-fi system, or that introducing effective shielding doesn't help address it.

    All I know is that since I've taken steps to tackle forms of airborne and electrically induced/mains-borne noise, via judicious cable selection, both power and signal orientated, and optimised my mains set-up accordingly, my system has never sounded better.

    For me, it's also no coincidence that those who've done the same, and paid proper attention to the 'infrastructure' of their system, generally always have the best sounding systems.

    At the end of the day, experience tells me that the devil is always in the details!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    On the contrary I'd say that jumping to the wrong conclusions about cause and effect is the worst possible thing for progress.
    But that's not what I'm saying... And I'm not "jumping to the wrong conclusions" either.

    I've reached the conclusions I have after 20 years of experimenting with mains and signal cables, the results of which have satisfied my judgement criteria. They may not be right, but they satisfy me, and so that being the case, I'm happy to believe they're true.

    For me, that's a practical and realistic approach...

    Therefore, I'm asking at what point, after being confident that you know how something works (as far as possible), and having researched the 'facts', do you simply trust your ears, even if what you're hearing appears to contradict it?

    Essentially it comes down to this:

    At what point could "imagination land" become reality if, despite seemingly being disproved by currently accepted wisdom, what you're hearing was true?

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  7. #117
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    Moreover, extrapolating things further, can you also see how if what you're hearing *was* true, then blindly believing the contrary, simply because currently accepted wisdom dictates so, could actually stifle progress...?

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  8. #118
    Join Date: Apr 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    But that's not what I'm saying... And I'm not "jumping to the wrong conclusions" either. I've reached the conclusions I have after 20 years of experimenting with mains and signal cables, the results of which have satisfied my judgement criteria. They may not be right, but they satisfy me, and so that being the case, I'm happy to believe they're true.

    For me, that's a practical and realistic approach...

    Marco.
    I was going to ask how you arrived at the conclusion that your mains leads were doing their bit to keep the interference gremlins out of your system. 20 years of experiment and observation obviously works well for you and being right or wrong gives me no cause to challenge what you have said or your actions in arriving at that. My experience differs from that I will admit, but I must respect your opinion accordingly, as we might both be right without realising it.
    CD player = Vincent
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  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Lol, I've ventured far enough into this rabbit hole. £60 for a mains cable is about as far as I'm willing to go so I'm going to trust your findings implicitly
    But if you get chance sometime just try a 4mm sq section cable vs a 2.5mm sq on your preamp and listen to the difference. The 4mm killed mine!

  10. #120
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    Will do Jim.
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Wizard Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
    Digital: Firebottle modded Xiang Sheng DAC (Telefunken Valve)
    Amplification: Slagle AVC Passive Preamp & Firebottle Monoblocks (Telefunken Valves)
    Cables: Fisual S-Flex Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables Throughout
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A

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