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Thread: Do mains cables make a difference??

  1. #271
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,468
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    I have removed all mains cables from my system. The noise floor has dropped considerably; the blackness is inkier than ever, and, if I close my eyes, the speakers disappear.
    Must be using super conductors.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + AT 33PTG II / AQVOX Phono 2 CI / Pro-Ject Pre Box RS / ESP Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / Modified semi-active Yamaha NS1000M Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / NAD M51 DAC.

  2. #272
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 992
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    30 magic mushrooms eaten fresh and washed down with a can of strong, cheap lager. System will sound amazing; I mean musicians not only in the room but you are inside the musician's heads too. System can be as shit as you like, it still works.


    Those were the days. I think I only started upgrading when I stopped doing drugs.
    Well you still have to be able to drop the needle on the record. Perhaps you only thought the music was playing? but you may be right about the upgrades after drugs, but itís more of where you choose to put your money?

    Russ

  3. #273
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 992
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The Krell manual is basically 3 pages of them saying 'Do not screw around with this thing!'

    You have to mute your pre-amp when cuing a record as due to the current delivery the transient from the needle dropping can blow the drivers out of your speakers.
    Just the other day, I was listening to FM, and decided to put on a CD, and when the drums kicked in it scared the crap out of me! Just crazy loud! After I sprang across the room to turn it down, I was impressed that even though it was loud enough to kill, it was nice and clean!

    Apparently the stock cable isnít holding it back any.

    Russell

  4. #274
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 992
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The maths are quite straightforward.

    Assume the conductor is copper, which has about 8.5 1028 conduction electrons per m3.
    Each electron carries a charge of 1.6 10-19 Coulombs.

    So in a 1 metre length of wire, 1mm in diameter, there are 6.7 1022 conduction electrons with a total charge of about 104 Coulombs.

    A current of 1A corresponds to a charge flow rate of 1 Coulomb/second, so at that rate it would take 104seconds for the total conduction charge in 1 metre of conductor (with a diameter of 1mm) to flow past a given point. Thus the average drift velocity is 0.1mm/second.

    So for an AC mains current alternating at 50Hz, during the first half cycle of 10ms, the electrons will drift 0.001mm, and in the second half cycle they will drift 0.001mm back again.

    However despite the small drift velocity, the individual electrons are subject to thermal excitations and these give the electrons a much higher Fermi velocity of about 1.6 106m/sec, or about 1010 higher than the drift velocity. Despite the high Fermi velocity electrons do not travel at this rate because they undergo collisions and are constantly being deflected from a straight line path. Owing to thermal excitation of the copper atoms, the conduction electrons are deflected because of this interaction. It is this interaction that results in the positive thermal coeffcient of resistance of metals. As the temperature rises so does the vibration of the atoms and the probability of an electron being deflected increases. The mean free path between collisions falls, so the acceleration by the electric field has less effect before the electron is deflecte in more or less random manner. The current produced by a given field falls and this corresponds to a higher resistance.

    Electron scattering will also occur due to defects such as impurities and crystal dislocations (grain boundaries). The effect of these can be estimated because they have a far lower temperature dependance than the thermal scattering effect. If the conductor is cooled towards absolute zero, the resistance doesn't fall to zero, but flattens out to a residual value determined by scattering from dislocations and impurities. For oxygen free copper, this residual resistance is about 1/70 (1.4%) of the resistivity at 20deg C; so the impurities make a contribution to the electron scattering of only 1.4%. And even the thermal scattering is low: the mean free path in copper at 20deg C is about 5 10-8m, so on average an electron passes 200 atoms without interaction before being deflected from a straight line path.

    To put the impurity scattering effect into perspective, this contributes ~ 1.4% to the overall scattering. So eliminating all impurities and dislocations would only reduce the resistance by 1.4%. A temperature rise of 2 - 3deg C would add more resistance than the elimination of all impurities would remove.

    Reducing crystal boundary dislocations (often called grain boundaries) and othe dislocations beyond a certain level is pointless because even if a perfect single crystal is produced, the effect of just bending the wire beyond its elestic limit (where it will spring back to its original shape) will be to create massive dislocations of the crystal structure, so such a perfect structure would be near imposible to maintain in practice.
    Well it sounds as though you have a much greater understanding of the situation than I do!

    But letís say my friendís theory is correct, electrons are moving back and forth only in the ďGood CopperĒ, do we jump to the assumption that the quality of these electrons are better than the electrons flowing out of a stock cable? Once they enter the wires within the amplifier, do they corrupt the electrons in those wires?

    I wonít say thatís impossible, but it does require a big leap of faith to say thatís why hyper expensive cables sound better. I doubt there is one iota of science to support it, and I donít think itís even logical. My friend in Italy is manufacturing some cables that he claims he makes using some mystical method that he cannot divulge that makes it the best in the world! And that all others are choking your stereo. I call BS, he claims itís easily demonstrable, but wonít let me try one before I buy, since they are so super expensive and takes two weeks to manufacture. I used to have great respect for the guy, but, this episode doesnít instill confidence. Heck, Iíve thought about selling some junk with a ton of techno-babble attached to get rich before, but Iím just too honest to let myself go there. Perhaps thatís my loss?

    Russell

  5. #275
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 20,666
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Well you still have to be able to drop the needle on the record. Perhaps you only thought the music was playing? but you may be right about the upgrades after drugs, but it’s more of where you choose to put your money?

    Russ
    Well the magic mushrooms were free, (and legal, back then, providing they were not prepared after picking which they were not) and I'd only listen to tapes when in that condition. Anyway 30 of them is not an especially strong effect, I wasn't tripping balls or anything. But the sonic enhancement was huge.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200P CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    'The best I advice I ever received was to always remember that no-one else has any idea what they are doing either.'

  6. #276
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 17,622
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Well it sounds as though you have a much greater understanding of the situation than I do!

    But let’s say my friend’s theory is correct, electrons are moving back and forth only in the “Good Copper”, do we jump to the assumption that the quality of these electrons are better than the electrons flowing out of a stock cable? Once they enter the wires within the amplifier, do they corrupt the electrons in those wires?

    I won’t say that’s impossible, but it does require a big leap of faith to say that’s why hyper expensive cables sound better. I doubt there is one iota of science to support it, and I don’t think it’s even logical. My friend in Italy is manufacturing some cables that he claims he makes using some mystical method that he cannot divulge that makes it the best in the world! And that all others are choking your stereo. I call BS, he claims it’s easily demonstrable, but won’t let me try one before I buy, since they are so super expensive and takes two weeks to manufacture. I used to have great respect for the guy, but, this episode doesn’t instill confidence. Heck, I’ve thought about selling some junk with a ton of techno-babble attached to get rich before, but I’m just too honest to let myself go there. Perhaps that’s my loss?

    Russell
    I often make up my own cables (usually interconnects but I have made up mains cables). The secret is to align the length of cable along a lay-line for at least 24 hours before you work on it, and only fit the connectors under the light of a full moon.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  7. #277
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 44,785
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I often make up my own cables (usually interconnects but I have made up mains cables). The secret is to align the length of cable along a lay-line for at least 24 hours before you work on it, and only fit the connectors under the light of a full moon.
    sounds like a horny old naval tale to me. arr me heartys
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  8. #278
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 992
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I often make up my own cables (usually interconnects but I have made up mains cables). The secret is to align the length of cable along a lay-line for at least 24 hours before you work on it, and only fit the connectors under the light of a full moon.
    Sounds more scientific than most!

    Russell


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #279
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 992
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Well the magic mushrooms were free, (and legal, back then, providing they were not prepared after picking which they were not) and I'd only listen to tapes when in that condition. Anyway 30 of them is not an especially strong effect, I wasn't tripping balls or anything. But the sonic enhancement was huge.
    Oh! Well, my experience was quite different. There werenít any growing wild where I lived, and ones we pad for were extreme, two tops and you were praying for mercy! Laugh Ďtil you blow snot! And your face hurt from smiling for two days after. The 70ís were a great time to be young.

    Russell


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  10. #280
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 35,206
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    The 70’s were a great time to be young
    Yup!

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