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Thread: Chester Hifi Show 2018

  1. #91
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Yes, I think so, although Macca has heard my Tannoys and Paul's (RFC), so that's about the closest.

    Thing is, you haven't heard mine in my system at home, which is a different kettle of fish, than at Scalford. They worked well there, but were probably only delivering 75% or so of their true potential, and what they're capable of here, where they sound rather more 'intimate'.

    The much smaller room [listening near-field] and the mains would be the biggest factors.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #92
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: gone

    Posts: 11,519
    I'm gone.

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    It's Paul RFC's I have heard, too, not Tom's. But Paul told me they were near identical spec and build. He gave his the own the nod, of course!

    Yes, I'd love to hear your system, Marco. Maybe I can get myself to Wrexham sometime?
    .

  3. #93
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    You'd be very welcome. It's not that far, as I've done the opposite journey to yours

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #94
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,777
    I'm Martin.

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    The narrow baffle is to reduce reflections and so improve stereo imaging. That's why even really expensive speakers, where they could have used big drivers just as easily, use an array of small ones. Or the cabinet tapers from wide at the bottom where the big driver is, up to narrow at the top where the mid and tweeter are. It isn't anything to do with fashion or lifestyle considerations.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #95
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Funny how big Tannoys have wide baffles, yet have some of the best imaging you could ask for.

  6. #96
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,777
    I'm Martin.

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    Diffraction off the baffle is a known problem, it's why KEF and B&W put their tweeters in little pods on some models.

    I think the problem is that there are so many problems with any design of speaker that just addressing one in isolation won't really accomplish anything except to give the marketing department something to talk about in the brochure, or maybe give a unique/different look to the speaker.

    Tannoys are a dual concentric so you'd expect them to image better because of that. But worth noting that a lot of Tannoys and other dual concentrics like KEF come in narrow cabs too. In theory they should image better than those in the wide cabs.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #97
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    there are so many problems with any design of speaker that just addressing one in isolation won't really accomplish anything except to give the marketing department something to talk about in the brochure, or maybe give a unique/different look to the speaker
    Quite likely. Loads of hype and bollocks based around theories.

  8. #98
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The narrow baffle is to reduce reflections and so improve stereo imaging. That's why even really expensive speakers, where they could have used big drivers just as easily, use an array of small ones. Or the cabinet tapers from wide at the bottom where the big driver is, up to narrow at the top where the mid and tweeter are. It isn't anything to do with fashion or lifestyle considerations.
    Dunno about that... Maybe not directly, but can you imagine how easy it would be to sell large, wide-baffled speakers these days to your average WAF-slave hi-fi enthusiast?

    Manufacturers make those claims about reflections and stereo imaging, and it might partly be true, but the overriding reason for that style of speaker being produced is to make the design more 'room friendly'.

    The type of speakers Andrew's referring to have a totally different sonic presentation to any tall, slim floor-stander, and one of the main reasons for that is baffle width. Therefore I stand by what I wrote earlier, and which you'll also discover when you get your Tannoys sorted!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #99
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: gone

    Posts: 11,519
    I'm gone.

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    If wide baffles are bad, then why don't Tannoys sound crap?

    Oh, hang on, wait a minute! ...

    .

  10. #100
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,777
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    The reason I don't think that it is a WAF thing is threefold

    1) the WAF solution is not to have any speakers or hi-fi on display at all. It's no good saying 'But darling, these speakers have very narrow baffles.' She doesn't want speakers in her living room, end of.

    For the WAF theory to be true the entire narrow baffle design would have to be aimed at that tiny sub-section of people who have a wife who will object to wide speakers but not to narrow ones. Whilst there must be some I would suggest it is hardly a demographic at all.

    2) There is plenty of research, mostly available on line, that looks closely into the effect the cabinet design has on the sound waves propagating from it. It is generally concluded that, all else being equal, narrow baffles image better than wide baffles.

    3) You can buy speakers that are absolute monsters and cost a fortune but still use a narrow baffle design. These speakers are clearly way beyond any WAF - pandering yet still use a narrow baffle. Why would they do that?

    As for Tannoys, the baffle needs to be that wide to accommodate a 15 inch driver, the fixings and the thickness of the side walls. I would be interested to see if anyone can produce any evidence that the baffle was deliberately made wide in order to improve sound quality. I'll bet there is none because I reckon they never even considered it. But happy to be proven wrong.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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