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Thread: Burn-in or gradually getting accustomed to the sound?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    The 'burn in' argument falls a bit flat when you change well used components over for other well used components and realise that another 'burn in' is happening, when in actual fact, all that's occuring is just (yet another) reacclimatisation to a change in the sound.
    Interesting scenario Geoff.
    With foil capacitors in particular I think the performance is not only dependent on the capacitor make-up, but also crucially on the surrounding circuit conditions.
    For example the voltage across the capacitor and the circuit impedances on either side of it.

    From experience the best sounding capacitor in one circuit (or position) isn't the best in a different circuit.
    That's why I give credence to others saying capacitor XYZ is the best, but always privately adding 'in your circuit'.


  2. #32
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,498
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    In my opinion, all manufacturers of audio electronics should 'burn in' their products before they are sold. That way the purchaser can use the item straight away.

    Speakers and cartridges are a different matter however, and one just has to accept that being electromechanical devices the suspension will take a while to bed in.
    Zu give all their speakers and loose drivers a good workout before selling.
    Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  3. #33
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    A cartridge is always going to be changing as the diamond wears, if nothing else. Whether this can really be heard until the point where the tip is so worn the degradation becomes audible is debatable, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I've heard them wear out but never heard them break in. The same applies to speakers, I've had plenty of new speakers and never heard them get any better than they started out. But again this is debatable.

    Methodology is not consistent. If someone gets a brand new component and sits there playing the same bit of music over and over again for however many hours as the burn in happens, and says that they heard it improve over that time, then that at least would be something. The reality is that no-one does that. What happens is we put in the new component, listen to a record, listen to another, listen to another, then we have to do other stuff. Maybe the next day or a few days later we sit and listen again, probably to completely different music. Then another gap. Then more different music.

    So how anyone doing that can confidentially claim that the sound has improved (and it always improves) over 2 or 3 hundred hours of listening to all sorts of different music, different production styles, different production values, over weeks or maybe months, I have no idea. Do they have any idea how poor their memory is for this sort of application? How their constantly changing physical and psychological mood will affect how they think and feel about what they are hearing?
    That would be easy to check. Get someone who swears that burn-in is really happening to live with a component while it burns-in. And then, after the burn-in period is over and the guy claims that the component had now significantly improved, swap it with the same component, but brand new out of the box (hasn't burned-in). See if the guy can detect any difference in sound. Simple.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    No. You don't swap it over for a new one. You just tell him you have!

  5. #35
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    No. You don't swap it over for a new one. You just tell him you have!
    Who's willing to bet that his response will be "Oh yeah, I can hear plainly how rigid, how uptight the sound becomes as soon as you put in the brand new component that hasn't been burned-in!"
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Who's willing to bet that his response will be "Oh yeah, I can hear plainly how rigid, how uptight the sound becomes as soon as you put in the brand new component that hasn't been burned-in!"
    If you test him blind I'll bet a pound to a penny he won't do any better than chance. (Although I'll make an exception for speakers and carts as there is a rational reason for burn in there, albeit the effect is likely to be very small and hard to detect).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: Herefordshire

    Posts: 104
    I'm Alex.

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    One of the things I have noticed when building or modifying a Dac is that they all sound a bit flat and two dimensional on first switch on.

    Although before I connect it to the main system, it would have sat on the bench switched on for a day or so while I wait for anything that can be adjusted stabilises.

    When connected to the main system, the first few days are spent with it sounding OK but not ready to just sit there and enjoy the music.

    About a week later after leaving it on with a CD playing on repeat it starts to leave the confines of the speakers. Another week the percussion attack gets faster and starts to resolve more ambient clues as to the recording environment.

    About a month later, it is ready to go with a wide and deep soundstage, percussive attack and cymbals sounding natural instead of a Click Hiss as opposed to a piece of metal being struck.

    After that all it needs is 1/2 hour warm up with a CD playing through it ti bring it up to it`s analogue sounding peak.

    You don't believe in warm up ... The manufacturer of my oscilloscope tells me to wait 23 - 30 mins before obtaining an accurate result.

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