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Thread: measuring Thiele-Small parameters - what am I missing?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

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    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquapiranha View Post
    Oh, and another potential issue...I weighed a roll of tape on two commer I am scales at work and they both reported 324g.
    I said 340g was way too much, but you don't seem to believe me - so here are some other opinions:

    http://audiojudgement.com/measuring-...ameters-part1/
    Under the heading "delta mass method" it states "Depending on the size of the speaker, you will place an adequate amount of clay, so that you modify the resonant frequency by at least 25%. This would roughly mean 10 g of clay for 6″ speakers or smaller, and 40 grams or more for larger woofers."

    http://sound.whsites.net/tsp.htm
    This site states "For speakers less than 200mm (8"), use 5 grams, for 200mm use 10g, and for 250mm (10") or larger, use 20g. You may need to add more if the mass chosen does not reduce resonance by at least 10%. The mass must be measured accurately! Even a small error can cause a large variation in the calculated Vas, so a precision scale (accurate to at least 0.1g) is essential."

    https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/he...ielesmall.html
    This site states "The plots below show the impedance measurements made in free air and then with a mass of 5g added to the cone."


    My guess is that with the speaker flat on its back and 340g on top the cone will simply be pushed back to the end-stops.

  2. #32
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: N. Ireland

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    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I said 340g was way too much, but you don't seem to believe me - so here are some other opinions:

    http://audiojudgement.com/measuring-...ameters-part1/
    Under the heading "delta mass method" it states "Depending on the size of the speaker, you will place an adequate amount of clay, so that you modify the resonant frequency by at least 25%. This would roughly mean 10 g of clay for 6″ speakers or smaller, and 40 grams or more for larger woofers."

    http://sound.whsites.net/tsp.htm
    This site states "For speakers less than 200mm (8"), use 5 grams, for 200mm use 10g, and for 250mm (10") or larger, use 20g. You may need to add more if the mass chosen does not reduce resonance by at least 10%. The mass must be measured accurately! Even a small error can cause a large variation in the calculated Vas, so a precision scale (accurate to at least 0.1g) is essential."

    https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/he...ielesmall.html
    This site states "The plots below show the impedance measurements made in free air and then with a mass of 5g added to the cone."


    My guess is that with the speaker flat on its back and 340g on top the cone will simply be pushed back to the end-stops.
    Hi I don't disbelieve you I was simply going on what I saw on Parts Express own demonstration video. I will need to look at the links thank you

    Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They swim... the mark of Satan is upon them. They must hang.


    FLAC / WDTV Live / Cambridge Audio / Tannoy VX12

  3. #33
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,468
    I'm Ken.

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    When calibrating the DATS software, the more accurate the reference resistor, the more accurate the results.

    I got a 0.01% tolerance 1K resistor to calibrate mine. (RS Components)

    340g is too much I used a lot less, on a 5" full range, think it was about 50g I used.
    Last edited by Qwin; 09-06-2018 at 19:44.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + AT 33PTG II / AQVOX Phono 2 CI / Pro-Ject Pre Box RS / ESP Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / Modified semi-active Yamaha NS1000M Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / NAD M51 DAC.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: N. Ireland

    Posts: 2,485
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    When calibrating the DATS software, the more accurate the reference resistor, the more accurate the results.

    I got a 0.01% tolerance 1K resistor to calibrate mine.

    Not sure why you need two rolls of tape?

    340g is too much I used a lot less, on a 5" full range, think it was about 50g I used.
    Hi. They provide a resistor for calibration with the unit. It seems the weight is much too high and since I have not yet done any tearing I will find an alternative. Whatever I use I want to avoid marking the cone if possible.

    Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They swim... the mark of Satan is upon them. They must hang.


    FLAC / WDTV Live / Cambridge Audio / Tannoy VX12

  5. #35
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,468
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquapiranha View Post
    Hi. They provide a resistor for calibration with the unit. It seems the weight is much too high and since I have not yet done any tearing I will find an alternative. Whatever I use I want to avoid marking the cone if possible.

    Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Yes, they provide a 1% tolerance resistor for calibration, my documentation said the more accurate the reference resistor the more accurate the unit, it is directly related, so I got the 0.01%, the reason they don't provide one is they cost 15 each.
    I have installed and used V1 on Windows XP Professional, Vista and 10 without issue.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + AT 33PTG II / AQVOX Phono 2 CI / Pro-Ject Pre Box RS / ESP Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / Modified semi-active Yamaha NS1000M Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / NAD M51 DAC.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: N. Ireland

    Posts: 2,485
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    Yes, they provide a 1% tolerance resistor for calibration, my documentation said the more accurate the reference resistor the more accurate the unit, it is directly related, so I got the 0.01%, the reason they don't provide one is they cost 15 each.
    I have installed and used V1 on Windows XP Professional, Vista and 10 without issue.
    Great, I might just do that thanks. Tell me, did you have to adjust any audio properties under windows 10? I can't find any info about it it their video which features windows 7 shows adjustments. The U.S. again, Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They swim... the mark of Satan is upon them. They must hang.


    FLAC / WDTV Live / Cambridge Audio / Tannoy VX12

  7. #37
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,468
    I'm Ken.

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    Did you get any set up instructions?
    I'm sure basic set up is explained.

    User Manual is under Help on the top menu row, providing you installed it.
    It's there on V1 anyway.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + AT 33PTG II / AQVOX Phono 2 CI / Pro-Ject Pre Box RS / ESP Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / Modified semi-active Yamaha NS1000M Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / NAD M51 DAC.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: N. Ireland

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    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    Did you get any set up instructions?
    I'm sure basic set up is explained.
    The US again? I am sorry that should have read thanks again! Yes there is a set up PDF that I downloaded but I can't find any info other than the video on YouTube about settings in windows so not sure if it applies only to windows 7 and below. I will have to find another item to use as a reference weight also.

    Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They swim... the mark of Satan is upon them. They must hang.


    FLAC / WDTV Live / Cambridge Audio / Tannoy VX12

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jun 2008

    Location: N. Ireland

    Posts: 2,485
    I'm Steve.

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    Actually I have found the settings now for windows 10 I missed it earlier. Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They swim... the mark of Satan is upon them. They must hang.


    FLAC / WDTV Live / Cambridge Audio / Tannoy VX12

  10. #40
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Durham - UK

    Posts: 1,468
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquapiranha View Post
    The US again? I am sorry that should have read thanks again! Yes there is a set up PDF that I downloaded but I can't find any info other than the video on YouTube about settings in windows so not sure if it applies only to windows 7 and below. I will have to find another item to use as a reference weight also.

    Steve

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Yeh, but you do have the user guide loaded, don't you?
    I have had my version 1 DATS for several years and the manual has separate quick start guides for XP/Vista/7. It talks you through setting up the audio, according to the menu differences in the three OS versions, what you are doing is the same thing on them all. I don't understand your problem, are you saying you have Windows 10 and your manual does not cover 10?

    Posts crossed, glad you found it.
    Ken

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/
    DIY Technics/ProJect based Turntable + Terminator linear tracker + AT 33PTG II / AQVOX Phono 2 CI / Pro-Ject Pre Box RS / ESP Active X-Over / Nakamichi AVP1 Power / Modified semi-active Yamaha NS1000M Speakers / Stello CDT100 Transport / NAD M51 DAC.

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