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Thread: On the road to audiophile experience

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Smile On the road to audiophile experience

    I am an audiophile. Ever since I was very young, I remember always perking up my ears whenever I was in the situation to hear an above-average sound reproduction. So naturally, I was drawn toward acquiring a decent hi fi system.

    Now, my curse is that I have other passions, other expensive hobbies (collecting quality guitars ain't cheap), etc. So I was never in the position to allocate all my hobby budget to audio components alone. My road to the audiophile experience was a rocky one, strewn with all kinds of tradeoffs and compromises.

    Despite all that cautiousness, over the years I've managed to spend a pretty penny on my audio equipment. Many of those purchases have been a blind alley, a complete waste of money, but every education comes at a cost. All in all, I was prone to believing that I do have a decent audio system. Many of my friends kept reinforcing that conclusion, so I was kind of satisfied with what I've managed to cobble up thus far.

    Still, deep inside, I always felt that my system is not good enough. There was always certain harshness, certain graininess that kept bothering me. No matter what component I'd upgrade or swap, the hardened edginess, certain glare or glassiness in the sound, something unpleasant remained.

    One reason I returned to turntable front end is to try and tame that edginess in sound. Got me a nicely refurbished Systemdek IIX with decent Rega RB300 tonearm and decided to fit it with Denon DL-103 cartridge. That cartridge is legendary for its pronounced 'analog' sound. Paired it with Denon AU-310 SUT, and believed I now have 'match made in heaven'.

    But a little worm in my head kept bugging me. "Is this really how you think warm analog sound should be?" little worm of doubt kept asking me. And in all honesty, I couldn't help it, I had to reply "No, this is far from how I expect full analog reproduction to sound. There is still hardness, still graininess, still plenty of edginess!"

    So I started going down the list of my components trying to figure out which ones are good enough (keepers), and which ones could potentially be the culprit causing this discreet, discontinuous sound. I eliminated my speakers from the list of potential culprits -- Maggies are quite revealing, but cannot be accused of not delivering continuous, liquid sound. Nordost speaker cables are also quite revealing, but cannot cause this non-liquid graininess.

    My separates (DPA combo) are pretty decent as well, and I don't think they are causing this 'electronic glare' I'm hearing when listening to my system. My interconnects (AudioQuest Red River and Golden Gate) should not contribute to the electronic glare either. I'm also using Shunyata power cables on all my equipment, which I think is a decent way to power your audio system.

    Systemdek is an old school workhorse turntable, and there isn't anything wrong with its performance. I've modded it per Chris's recommendations, made it almost perfectly level, and I feel that it works as advertised. Rega RB300 tonearm is no slouch either. And of course, Denon DL-103 cartridge & Denon AU-310 SUT are a legendary combo, so those components cannot be accused of producing glassy sound either.

    So that leaves me with my phono preamp -- Emotiva XPS-1. That little component has been garnering a lot of positive reviews, you know the ones that claim how it punches above its weight. Still, I got the feeling that it is this little box that is muddying the waters for me. So I decided to start looking for a replacement.

    I started auditioning various phono preamps that could fit within my modest budget. I did side-by-side comparisons, beginning with Creek phono, then Pro-ject phono box, Rega phono, all the way up to Clearaudio Basic +. It was an interesting series of experiments, where I started discerning various qualities that different phono boxes bring to the table. Each one was different, of course, improving one aspect of the playback while sacrificing some other aspect, and so on. But regardless of those changes, all those boxes still resulted in that grainy, glassy, non-continuous sound that I grew to detest so much. Something was amiss, that's for sure. The sound wasn't as smooth as I'd like it to be.

    And then I plugged in iFi Micro iPhono 2. Right from the first second of the playback, my system was fully transformed! It's as if someone had gutted it and replaced everything with brand new components. For the first time in my life, I was hearing that smooth, silky, warm, relaxed, non-grainy, non-electronic, fully organic natural sound. Something about that box in my audio chain just fits in right, and makes every other component sing in harmony.

    Finally, I can say with confidence that I've made an entry to the first rung of the audiophile sound reproduction!

    Moral of the story -- as is always the case, the chain is as strong as its weakest link. In my case, the weakest link was the phono stage. I could've kept spending large sums of money on better speakers, better cables, better separates, better turntable, better tonearm, better cartridge, none of that would've satisfied me if the main culprit, the grainy Emotiva phono, remained in the audio chain. So it really pays to do a little detective work, invest some time and money upfront, in order to troubleshoot unsatisfactory performance. It is only now, once I reached this entry point into the audiophile world, that I feel I can begin to make meaningful upgrades to my stereo.

    Of course, the usual caveat applies: my room, my audio chain, my ears. YMMV.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Good post Alex, glad for you and thanks for sharing.

    Graininess can be down to a number of things.
    Analogue wise set up issues Always worth checking set up is right, checking and readjusting until happy or certain it is as optimum as pos.

    Some cdps can play nice but have a pronounced glassy grain inherent in their sound.

    Mains is known for adding grain to our precious presentation.

    Then of course we have cases like yours where one 'weak' link is the culprit.

    Sometimes if you've upgraded areas but maybe not one, your system will reveal which component is the culprit and where that next bit more is to be found.

    Nice one !
    Last edited by RobbieGong; 21-03-2018 at 16:54.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieGong View Post
    Good post Alex, glad for you and thanks for sharing.

    Graininess can be down to a number of things.
    Analogue wise set up issues Always worth checking set up is right, checking and readjusting until happy or certain it is as optimum as pos.

    Some cdps can play nice but have a pronounced glassy grain inherent in their sound.

    Mains is known for adding grain to our precious presentation.

    Then of course we have cases like yours where one 'weak' link is the culprit.

    Sometimes if you've upgraded areas but maybe not one, your system will reveal which component is the culprit and where that next bit more is to be found.

    Nice one !
    Thanks Robert. This experience is now making me think that there isn't anything inherently natural and smooth in the vinyl medium per se. Same as with digital, you can hear some horrendously harsh and grainy vinyl playback. So the battle is now finding the places where that graininess and harshness arises.

    And if a digital playback is harsh, I now think that it is possible to tame it, just as I was able to tame my analog harshness. For example, it could be that replacing the DAC could bring one to the point where digital playback suddenly becomes smooth, liquid, natural sounding. I mean, I haven't managed to get there myself, but now I think it must be possible to get there even in the digital realm.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,473
    I'm Paul.

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    Nice post. I think all of us get that bug to upgrade from time to time. Nowadays I tend to wait and see if I still feel the same way after a few months and during that time have a play about to see if I can solve the issue by setting the system up better. Takes a while but generally I can work out what is actually the problem.

    Have you tried some attenuators on the output of your CDP? I used to make and sell these on ebay years ago and they worked really well in many cases, not all, but many none the less. 14 dB tends to be about right most of the time.
    ~Paul~

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalsea View Post
    Nice post. I think all of us get that bug to upgrade from time to time. Nowadays I tend to wait and see if I still feel the same way after a few months and during that time have a play about to see if I can solve the issue by setting the system up better. Takes a while but generally I can work out what is actually the problem.

    Have you tried some attenuators on the output of your CDP? I used to make and sell these on ebay years ago and they worked really well in many cases, not all, but many none the less. 14 dB tends to be about right most of the time.
    Never tried CDP attenuators. Are they applied to the digital transport or to the DAC?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Never tried CDP attenuators. Are they applied to the digital transport or to the DAC?
    You plug your line out cable into them. Then plug the attenuator into the pre-amp. They are like an adaptor, you can try them at the pre-amp end or the end connected to the source.

    They didn't work for me either way but your mileage may vary.

    If you want good digital get a better pre-amp (or a decent passive).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    I don't like line attenuators as I can always hear the negative effect they have. It may be very minor, but I do hear it. Strangely, inserting a simple passive pre-amp to control levels seems to have a less detrimental effect and can be cheaper.

  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    You plug your line out cable into them. Then plug the attenuator into the pre-amp. They are like an adaptor, you can try them at the pre-amp end or the end connected to the source.

    They didn't work for me either way but your mileage may vary.

    If you want good digital get a better pre-amp (or a decent passive).
    Interesting. I tested my digital playback by bypassing me preamp and straight into the power amp and then attenuating at the digital transport stage. No audible difference, let alone improvement.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: http://www.homehifi.co.uk

    Posts: 6,288

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    And if a digital playback is harsh, I now think that it is possible to tame it, just as I was able to tame my analog harshness. For example, it could be that replacing the DAC could bring one to the point where digital playback suddenly becomes smooth, liquid, natural sounding. I mean, I haven't managed to get there myself, but now I think it must be possible to get there even in the digital realm.
    There is where a discrete transistor output stage on a DAC can make a difference, such as on the Caiman SEG.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Interesting. I tested my digital playback by bypassing me preamp and straight into the power amp and then attenuating at the digital transport stage. No audible difference, let alone improvement.
    Usually that sounds worse. Don't ask me why. But besides everything else IME you really need a good pre-amp for digital to show what it does best. What digital does best is not what vinyl does best though, so it's a matter of taste and preference even then.

    Even a budget passive will give you a hint of it. But if you want to stay with active pre-amps you need to get spendy and choose carefully.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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