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Thread: Bi-Amp ... how about Tri-Amp ?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 17,216
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post

    BTW, a bridged amp is not the same thing as a monoblock. In a conventional amp, one of the loudspeaker terminals is connected to 0 volts (the black one) and the other terminal (the red one) swings positive and negative to drive the loudspeaker. A bridged amp (usually) uses two conventional amps connected together so that neither of the loudspeaker terminals is connected to 0V. Instead, one terminal is driven positive and negative by one amp while the other terminal is driven negative and positive by the other amp. That gives you twice the voltage swing you would have if you only used one of the amps.
    In practice this is usually done by using a stereo power amp which has a bridging switch to turn it into a bridged-mono amp. However, it would be possible to do it with any stereo power amp if you also had an outboard device to generate an extra, out-of-phase, signal in addition to the original signal.
    Hmmm... I wonder if there's a market for such a device
    I doubt it
    There are two ways in which a 'stereo', or two-channel amplifier can have its outputs connected together so as to increase the output power:

    Series connection - whereby the available voltage is doubled,

    Parallel connection - whereby the available current is doubled.

    The former option requires a transformer on the input of the two amps, whereas the latter option is possible with amplifiers employing an output transformer with a completely independant winding for the speaker output (that is the feedback is provided by a separate winding). And in the latter case a number of series/parallel combinations might be available, depending on the number of output impedance taps there are on the transformer. For most SS amplifiers parallel connection is easily arranged through using a potentiometer to provide an equal input to each channel.

    Quad publish details of how to do this with their valve amps, as well as the 303 and 405 designs. The Quad 510 monoblock amplifier allows various series/parallel output connection with other 510 amplifiers, to provide a maximum power of over 1200W.
    Last edited by Barry; 24-03-2018 at 16:47. Reason: correction
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  2. #12
    Join Date: Apr 2010

    Location: Bristol, since 1978. Current house since 1996!

    Posts: 323
    I'm Chris.

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    Big thing in 80s was Linn Isobariks, tri-amped! Ain't nothing new in the world?
    Chris.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 20
    I'm Roland.

    Default Thx for the discussion

    Thanks for the discussion,

    I find more power useful not for getting the music louder, but for driving it in a more relaxed tone.. let's say more effortless, less strained.
    I'm looking to improve my hifi#1 : What would you say the next step up in sound is from Arcam A90 + P90 ?

    I also find it's the Amplifier that is the heart of a system...
    Once I got my A90 + P90 setup, I found no matter what speakers I attached.. everything sounded good
    Surprisingly, even the cheapest 200 Gale floorstanders made a great sound... the speakers seemed to make little difference to the sound.. more like a different finishing touch
    Oh I know everyone will say I'm mad, but I tried it, and couldn't find a speaker that made a bad sound, as long as the amps were doing a great job... & I mean great...

    I know excellent source equipment is essential... I just don't see speakers making much of a difference, unless they lack bass (like my B&W 704s).. adding a REL 7Ti Sub went a long way towards fixing that

  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 19,845
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandoraefretum View Post
    Thanks for the discussion,

    I find more power useful not for getting the music louder, but for driving it in a more relaxed tone.. let's say more effortless, less strained.
    I'm looking to improve my hifi#1 : What would you say the next step up in sound is from Arcam A90 + P90 ?

    I also find it's the Amplifier that is the heart of a system...
    Once I got my A90 + P90 setup, I found no matter what speakers I attached.. everything sounded good
    Surprisingly, even the cheapest 200 Gale floorstanders made a great sound... the speakers seemed to make little difference to the sound.. more like a different finishing touch
    Oh I know everyone will say I'm mad, but I tried it, and couldn't find a speaker that made a bad sound, as long as the amps were doing a great job... & I mean great...
    I've also found that with good/well matched amplification that even the cheapest speakers can sound good.

    If you want cheap power you could check out something like the Behringer iNuke https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-N.../dp/B005EHIN12

    1000 watts into 8 ohm, just 139 English pounds.

    With the bi and tri amping it isn't the extra power that makes the difference (because there isn't any extra power in reality) but the fact that the individual amplifiers are not having to work so hard. Although any benefit will depend on how tricky a load the speakers are. B&W speakers tend to be quite demanding in that respect (low impedance load) so not surprising you noticed an improvement.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    ''I like to be objective about my subjectivity.''

    - Geoff 'Walpurgis'

  5. #15
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 33,631
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I've also found that with good/well matched amplification that even the cheapest speakers can sound good
    Yes. That's a strange phenomenon, rubbish speakers allowing changes in upstream equipment quality to be heard. True though.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 20
    I'm Roland.

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    Thanks for that Martin,

    Finally someone starting to agree with me...
    Your reasoning sounds good to me

    Well since I recently purchased an Arcam A39 Integrated Amp
    I was wondering if I could get another, and use them in classic Bi-Amp configuration (since Arcam doesn't make a matching "P39") ?
    (using Pre-Out to hook up the second A39)

    Of course I would set them to the same volume

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jul 2017

    Location: Selby

    Posts: 11
    I'm Michael.

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    If you are diy inclined then it is easy to see (hear ) the effects of more power on tap. With the same amplifier circuit, rectifier and smoothing caps just keep swapping the transformer for one with slightly higher secondary voltage. Must keep within the limits of the components on the board, the rectifier, caps and heat sinks

    This little experiment is not cheap to do as transformers are expensive but it is the only way to know what is really going on. I think you are right regarding the effortless nature of the same amp with higher voltage rails. Also increasing transformer VA can bring rewards in certain circumstances due to the lower impedance.

    I am a big fan of giving each drive unit its own amplifier. Also I like splitting the front end off and giving it its own dedicated psu (transistor amps) usually with a nice EI transformer. In fact I just love an EI transformer on most things except power amp output stages.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 20
    I'm Roland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen Dover View Post
    If you are diy inclined then it is easy to see (hear ) the effects of more power on tap. With the same amplifier circuit, rectifier and smoothing caps just keep swapping the transformer for one with slightly higher secondary voltage. Must keep within the limits of the components on the board, the rectifier, caps and heat sinks

    This little experiment is not cheap to do as transformers are expensive but it is the only way to know what is really going on. I think you are right regarding the effortless nature of the same amp with higher voltage rails. Also increasing transformer VA can bring rewards in certain circumstances due to the lower impedance.

    I am a big fan of giving each drive unit its own amplifier. Also I like splitting the front end off and giving it its own dedicated psu (transistor amps) usually with a nice EI transformer. In fact I just love an EI transformer on most things except power amp output stages.
    I'm not anywhere near DIY in nature, unfortunately... But I like what you say; "each drive unit its own amplifier" is my goal too.. "dedicated psu".. couldn't agree more..
    If I get rich overnight, first thing I'll do is vamp up my hifi, for the moment it's one item at a time...

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