Speaker re-wire and re-cap

[Opti-cal]

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of rewiring and recapping a pair of Loth X BS1 speakers.
They are pretty efficient (94db-ish) and have a full range paper driver with a tweeter to extend over around 16khz.
The tweeter has an MKP-FC cap rated at 1.5uF (400v) in line with it so I'm going to replace them as I don't know how old they are. I'd also like a performance upgrade if possible.



I like the sound as it is at the moment so hopefully replacing the internal wiring (which is pretty dire looking) with some nice OCC stuff and upgrading the caps will yield some nice improvement.
At the moment I'm thinking Auricap/Clarity/Jantzen/Miflex/Mundorf

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...uricap-xo.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...ne-p-8687.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...ap-p-9908.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...capacitor.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...ps-p-1741.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/con...-oil-capacitor


Anything else I should be considering around these prices?

I've never actually changed the caps in speakers before, only preamps and phono stages so any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Chris

[Macca]

if the tweeter is only rolling in at 16Khz it's pretty much superfluous.

You could look at replacing the full range driver with a better one, if possible.

[Opti-cal]

if the tweeter is only rolling in at 16Khz it's pretty much superfluous.

You could look at replacing the full range driver with a better one, if possible.

I think it's around 16khz so it will make a difference. It definitely adds some top end 'sparkle' even if you can't specifically pick it out. I can hear 18-19 quite easily. I have to turn off all those ruddy mouse replant things my in-laws keep in their house.

The drivers are good, nowt wrong with them. Also it's a weird shape . . . . I guess I'd have to look at other Loth X ones, and they are pretty expensive.



See weird shape . . . . or is this a standardized driver shape/type?

[Macca]

No not unusual. Getting the screw holes to match is the hard part.

Probably are good drivers, I was just chucking out suggestions, since you asked.

I got a review of those Loths in an old HFW somewhere. IIRC they have a big mid-range hump and no bass, a bit like Linn Kans. Much higher efficiency though

[walpurgis]

Fairly common shape, similar to the KEF B200. The Tannoy 'in house' term for drivers that sort of shape was 'quartic'. (I know, 'cos they told me )

[Ali Tait]

If the tweeter is 8 ohms, a 1.5uF cap will give 13250hz, 4 ohms will give 26500hz. Might be worth changing the wiring, I think any new cap you buy will sound a little different, won't really be a big improvement IMO. The existing cap will be fine.

[Opti-cal]

No not unusual. Getting the screw holes to match is the hard part.

Probably are good drivers, I was just chucking out suggestions, since you asked.

I got a review of those Loths in an old HFW somewhere. IIRC they have a big mid-range hump and no bass, a bit like Linn Kans. Much higher efficiency though

Haha, yes I have to agree with the review there. They are coloured, they are rolled off, they have little to no bass below 60Hz . . . . BUT . . . with a SET amplifier, the finesse and overall cohesion they bring to the music is genuinely quite astonishing. I've been in love with them for years and always will be. They were the first speakers which gave me actual immersion into the music/goosebumps stuff.

Mated with a sub crossed around 60Hz they actually fill a medium sized room really well.

[Opti-cal]

If the tweeter is 8 ohms, a 1.5uF cap will give 13250hz, 4 ohms will give 26500hz. Might be worth changing the wiring, I think any new cap you buy will sound a little different, won't really be a big improvement IMO. The existing cap will be fine.

Ah okay, thanks Ali, so they might actually be in play a little earlier than I had thought. Well I'm doing the rewire and I have eventually settled on some Jantzen Superior Z-cap's which won't break the bank so no real risk there.

[sailor]

Hi Chris, the Jantzen cap you have chosen sounds great and is a nice upgrade over the SCR (Solen) in your photo. I can't see the rest of your XO but if it uses those white sand cast abominations for resistors then while you are at it replace them too. Mills 12W are good but not the only option. I see some wires crimped to a brass push-on lug. I recommend cutting the nasty thing off and soldering instead.

Don't know if you are aware of this very informative/exhaustive cap collection review. I find it to be accurate regarding the caps I have tried.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Do not be swayed by those who think reproduction of the very high frequencies are unimportant because they can't hear above say 14Khz. It's the higher order harmonics that contain much of the clues to the acoustic space and the placement of performers within that space.

The higher frequencies when reproduced combined with the instrument's fundamental allow the ear/brain relationship to identify that instrument. If the harmonics are removed from some instruments like piano, sax or any other and are asked to play for example middle-C, what you will hear is a pure tone of 261.6 Hz. That is to say you will not be able to tell what is producing that annoying tone. When the instruments complex harmonics are added back to the fundamental you will then be able to recognise the instrument as a piano and the more complete the harmonics the more the piano sounds like a piano and the more delineated it becomes. This leads to less listener fatigue.

In nature we tuned into these high frequencies as part of our survival mechanism. A sharp crack of branch or dry twig snapping would alert us to danger and also indicate the direction from which it may come. Now if all the old farts could not hear the top octave as part of the sound they would have all been eaten.

Look up a white paper article by Max Townshend who is a proponent and producer of super-tweeters which respond up to about 60Khz or somewhere. Can't remember the title but something to do with 'Beyond 20Khz' A very important disclosure and a way of taking your sound beyond what cables and amp upgrades can achieve.

The Miflex caps I have not heard so perhaps you would like to buy a pair of those as well so you can report back with your findings

[Macca]

If you can't hear it then you can't hear and there's no point having it. Not really much more that can be said.