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Thread: Biggest bang for the buck/pound/euro, top to bottom

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Question Biggest bang for the buck/pound/euro, top to bottom

    Opinions differ when it comes to determining which component in audio reproduction chain imputes the biggest difference. My (somewhat tentative) list is below; curious to learn other members' priorities:

    1. Turntable
    2. Wall mount shelf
    3. Tonearm
    4. Speakers
    5. Cartridge
    6. Phono stage (including SUT for LOMC)
    7. interconnects
    8. Power amp
    9. Preamp
    10. RCM
    11. Power conditioning
    12. Speaker cables
    13. Speaker stands
    14. Component isolation (spikes, sorbothane feet, etc.)

    NB: I stopped listening to digital audio, so digital transport and DAC and digital coax cables didn't make it to my list.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

    Default Biggest bang for the buck/pound/euro, top to bottom

    Speakers at #1 for me, with room setup (sofas, soft furnishings, breaking up the room) and positioning as being very important here. I think coupling / decoupling (isolation) techniques have more of an impact than cables, and that speaker cable has more of an impact than interconnects, with digital cables having the least impact, if any.

    There are also matching considerations, for example making sure an amp can properly drive the speakers.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

    Posts: 1,250
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Opinions differ when it comes to determining which component in audio reproduction chain imputes the biggest difference. My (somewhat tentative) list is below; curious to learn other members' priorities:

    1. Turntable
    2. Wall mount shelf
    3. Tonearm
    4. Speakers
    5. Cartridge
    6. Phono stage (including SUT for LOMC)
    7. interconnects
    8. Power amp
    9. Preamp
    10. RCM
    11. Power conditioning
    12. Speaker cables
    13. Speaker stands
    14. Component isolation (spikes, sorbothane feet, etc.)

    NB: I stopped listening to digital audio, so digital transport and DAC and digital coax cables didn't make it to my list.
    Its a bit of a contradiction with wall mount shelf at #2 and component isolation at #14. They are very similar in benefit.
    Source
    SW1X Universal Music Server UMS I Signature with Power Supply Unit PSU I Signature
    SW1X USB II
    SW1X DAC III Special
    Audiolab 6000 CDT transport
    Amps
    Pre amps -- Hi fi Collective twin mono ladder stepped attenuator, with Charcroft Z-foil and silver wired. And First Watt B1 active no gain buffer.
    Power amps -- Welborne 45 SET monoblocks 1.8W / Decware Taboo 6W / Elekit 300B TU-8600SVK plus further improved components 9W / ICE Power 1000W
    Speakers
    Highly modified Endorphin P17 open baffle speakers containing both vintage and modern alnico drivers and paper cones. All silver wired - 8" Cube Audio FC8 full range drivers and vintage 15" Altec VOTT 416 bass drivers. All sat on Townsend Audio Podium seismic isolation platforms.
    BK Electronics XLS400FF Sub.
    Cabling
    Silver mains cables, interconnects and speaker cables by SW1X
    Headphones
    HRT HeadStreamer and SennHeiser HD650 headphones

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,784
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Ignoring the fact that they are all, to an extent, interlinked:

    Speakers
    Room
    Pre amplifier
    Power Amplifier
    CD player
    Cables and interconnects

    None of that other stuff Magic listed.

    Stopped listening to vinyl so that doesn't make it to my list

    But I'd say

    Turntable
    Phono stage
    Cartridge
    Arm

    Although I'm torn between whether cart or arm is more important. I used to think the arm hardly mattered, doh! And I'm always amazed how many people who are really into vinyl underestimate what a difference the phono stage makes. It's really worth spending the bucks there folks.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Ignoring the fact that they are all, to an extent, interlinked:

    Speakers
    Room
    Pre amplifier
    Power Amplifier
    CD player
    Cables and interconnects

    None of that other stuff Magic listed.

    Stopped listening to vinyl so that doesn't make it to my list

    But I'd say

    Turntable
    Phono stage
    Cartridge
    Arm

    Although I'm torn between whether cart or arm is more important. I used to think the arm hardly mattered, doh! And I'm always amazed how many people who are really into vinyl underestimate what a difference the phono stage makes. It's really worth spending the bucks there folks.
    I would swap speakers and room round on your first list as the room dictates the speakers to a great extent especially as we listen to 80-90% reflected sound?

  6. #6
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,784
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Maybe so. Although I've had the same room for 20 years so I suppose I'm used to it now.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,473
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    Assuming that all the equipment is decent and provides a noise that you like, I would put the speakers at the top of teh list. I believe that the speaker / room interaction is the thing that dominates. Next would be speaker stands or bases, then room furnishings, assuming that your room is not completely bare to start with.
    ~Paul~

  8. #8
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

    Default

    I pretty well agree with your list Macca;

    Speakers
    Room
    Pre amplifier
    Power Amplifier
    CD player
    Cables and interconnects

    But I'm wondering now about my own CD player, criticised by friends, and also its position or relevance because so many say that streaming quality is better.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Ignoring the fact that they are all, to an extent, interlinked:

    Speakers
    Room
    Pre amplifier
    Power Amplifier
    CD player
    Cables and interconnects
    Lol... The key difference in our thinking is the placing of due importance on the quality/musical capabilities of the source, no matter whether it's a CD player or a turntable. Yes, in the case of the latter it matters more, but that doesn't render the former as insignificant

    I can assure you that if I removed my (heavily modified) Sony transport and DAC, the sound of which you loved, and replaced it with something sonically inferior [insert your preferred example here] you'd hear it, regardless of what the Tannoys were doing at the end. All they'd do is highlight what was wrong upstream!

    Quite simply, no amplifier or pair of speakers, further down in the music chain, can make up for the deficiencies (small or otherwise) of the source components, no matter how talented the former are at performing their respective tasks.

    The only way you'd sign up to the mantra of CD players (or any other digital sources) not mattering much in the grand scheme of things, as you've indicated above, is if you're firmly in the camp of 'all CD players sound the same', or virtually the same, providing that they're 'competently designed' and measure that way.

    Given your documented experiences in that area, however, especially with the Technics broadcast players you own, which when working, you claimed pissed all over any other players you've had in your system, I'd have thought would've precluded you from occupying that camp.....

    Honestly, the main reason why CDs sound as they do in my system, and which captivated you so when you were round, is directly because of the quality of the Sony transport and DAC - and crucially how they've been judiciously modified. The other components in the system are simply making the most of the music signal they've been fed by the source.

    Also, I'd put speakers and room (and how they interact together) into the one category: that of exerting most influence on the sound. They should therefore be effectively considered as a 'system', simply because one automatically influences the other, and to a huge degree.

    Turntable
    Phono stage
    Cartridge
    Arm

    Although I'm torn between whether cart or arm is more important. I used to think the arm hardly mattered, doh!
    Lol - and you're *still* not placing sufficient importance on it! It's the tonearm that's directly responsible for how the cartridge behaves, thus how accurately it's able to extract information from the grooves, without introducing unnecessary distortion. It's *fundamentally* important to the whole process.

    That fact is obvious when you consider how much any [even tiny] adjustment carried out to the arm (in respect of VTA or whatever) influences the sound you hear!

    Therefore with a turntable the order of hierarchy is always thus:

    1) Turntable (motor unit itself and associated components, plinth, bearing, PSU, etc)
    2) Tonearm
    3) Cartridge

    ...then the quality of the phono stage comes into play.

    However, as I was saying before with CD players, the phono stage, likewise, can't make up for any deficiencies in the job done by what came before it (as listed above), so you need to maximise the ability of all of those items, and in turn extract maximum information from the vinyl records themselves, in order to allow the phono stage to perform its function to the best of its ability.

    However, I agree, too many folks, in a vinyl replay system, place more importance on the preamp than the phono stage - and THAT is a big mistake!!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,784
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    I pretty well agree with your list Macca;

    Speakers
    Room
    Pre amplifier
    Power Amplifier
    CD player
    Cables and interconnects

    But I'm wondering now about my own CD player, criticised by friends, and also its position or relevance because so many say that streaming quality is better.
    Which CD player is it?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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