Biggest bang for the buck/pound/euro, top to bottom

[Pharos]

Thanks for the reassurance Martin, it is MC24 I now think.

[Macca]

Thanks for the reassurance Martin, it is MC24 I now think.

Well don't take my word for it But once you are beyond a certain level of quality in the process of reading the file (whatever medium the file is stored on) and translating that into electrical current there's better things to worry about further down the chain.

Vinyl is a whole different ballgame.

[montesquieu]

My take

1) Amp & Speakers - they operate as a unit and have to work together. Regardless of how good one or other is, if they aren't right for each other you are wasting your time and nothing will sound good, regardless of what you feed them. The foundation of any system, it's where you need to focus your biggest attention, at least until you know you've cracked it. Cheap sources can always be improved over time but the foundation needs to be there or you just end up going round in circles. Pick speakers you like and buy an amp to suit. Or buy an amp and pick the perfect speakers for it. This bit is not necessarily about spending a shed load of money and is where the biggest bang for the buck is. (It is of course possible to make an expensive amp or set of speakers sound rubbish with the wrong pairing).

2) Sources. I'm a vinyl guy but others may differ of course. In my view this is where it gets seriously spendy especially in the vinyl area, but also with digital if you want to attempt to get it sounding anywhere near as good as a top vinyl setup. But you can get reasonable sounding digital for not much. If short of cash, focus on amp and speakers and improve sources when funds allow.

3) Ancillary bits (cables, supports, mains treatment etc etc). Worth fiddling with once you fix the other stuff, but beyond 'quality' budget level, probably a bit pointless until 1 and 2 are fully sorted out. Spending fortunes here will not permanently fix issues of synergy between amp and speakers for example, though it might temporarily improve things a bit, until the underlying problem starts to annoy you again. In my view a lot of purchases in this area serve mainly to alleviate anxiety (sort of hygiene factor) rather than achieve any significant sound improvement (though big improvements are nevertheless possible for example with mains where there is a specific local issue). Yes cables can sometimes make things sound different but if I have a system issue my efforts will always focus primarily on the root cause, not on wire swapping.

Having said all that one of the best value purchases I've made has been a Loricraft PRC6.

[Yomanze]

^^ Yep I too group amps and speakers together. A world class amp into some speakers can be rubbish into others, and vice versa.

[Marco]

Regardless of how good one or other is, if they aren't right for each other you are wasting your time and nothing will sound good, regardless of what you feed them. The foundation of any system, it's where you need to focus your biggest attention, at least until you know you've cracked it. Cheap sources can always be improved over time but the foundation needs to be there or you just end up going round in circles. Pick speakers you like and buy an amp to suit. Or buy an amp and pick the perfect speakers for it.

All of the above is good advice, especially regarding the "foundation", and such an approach should work, *providing* [and I can't stress this enough] that once you've done the latter (one or the other above, highlighted in bold), there's still sufficient budget left to spend on a source that's *just as good as the amp or speakers*, and that does them justice.

Otherwise, I'm afraid I still sign up to the mantra of: 'mediocre in, mediocre out' (I prefer that to the more commonly used 'garbage', as I consider it more accurate in reality), and you'll simply end up with an uninspiring sound, albeit 'well controlled' by the amp and speakers - but if both of those are genuinely high quality, then they'll also be ably capable of revealing the shortcomings of the source, and that state of affairs will remain only for as long as you can stand it

Personally, I've never been able to live longterm with a budget (commercially produced) digital, or especially, vinyl source, in front of a highly capable amp and speakers, as I'm usually all too aware of the former's deficiencies.

That's why when these types of threads arise, I always advocate the building of a 'balanced' system, with the available budget spread as evenly as possible across the main system components [keeping a sensible percentage back for ancillaries], with perhaps just a little more spent on speakers, as all else being as equal as possible, they (in conjunction with the room) will always exert most influence on the final sound.

Marco.

[jandl100]

All of the above is good advice, especially regarding the "foundation", and such an approach should work, *providing* [and I can't stress this enough] that once you've done the latter (one or the other above, highlighted in bold), there's still sufficient budget left to spend on a source that's *just as good as the amp or speakers*, and that does them justice.

Nah, you are equating cost with quality. I don't agree that there is such a relationship.

Speakers - yeah, spend a bundle.

Then play around with amps and sources at any price level to find synergies that you enjoy.

(I'm ignoring vinyl playback here)

[Marco]

Nah, you are equating cost with quality. I don't agree that there is such a relationship.

Speakers - yeah, spend a bundle.

Yes, because very often that's the case. Not always, of course, but I can hear a thin, bright, tinny-sounding budget CDP or DAC (powered by a cheap, grainy sounding SMPS or plastic DVD-ROM transport mech), as clear as day, and it bugs my ears big time - and gives digital a bad name.

Now I agree that chucking money at it isn't an automatic cure, but the simple fact is good engineering costs money - and good engineering is vital to the sound of good digital replay, especially with CD players!

As for your last bit, well that's just typical from a speakers-first fanboy

Marco.

[jandl100]

And as soon as I saw your "source first" first post I thought Flat Earth Flat Earth*.

* now there is a hifi religion that belongs in the dustbin of history.

[Marco]

Oh I fully agree! But 'source first' doesn't have to mean flat earth... And more importantly, I'm not advocating a 'source first' approach, but rather a sensibly balanced one!

Marco.