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Thread: Mono cartridges

  1. #11
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: Isle of Wight, UK

    Posts: 73
    I'm David.

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    Hi Tom,

    May I ask you a couple of questions please?

    The majority of my mono LP's, if not all, are pre stereo era (microgroove?) so presumably will play best with a 1mm stylus. How different is the sound if these are played with a 0.7mm stylus?

    How does the sound of the lesser Miyajima's, i.e. Kotetu or Spirit (if they are still available) compare with the mono SPU's?

    Lastly I know from our PM's that you have spent quite a bit of time with shims and headshell weights to make swapping between your various cartridges a quick and easy task. Have you had to measure/weigh each cartridge yourself or have you been able to rely on the manufacturers data, such as it is? As you know I'm looking for a simple solution and at the moment am tempted to just buy three (or more) SPU's to cover Stereo, Mono and 78's, albeit even that isn't plug and play given the large weight disparity between the two CG Mono cartridges and the stereo SPU's.

    Many thanks for all your help.

    David Whistance

  2. #12
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Queensland, Australia

    Posts: 33
    I'm Dazz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhistance View Post

    The majority of my mono LP's, if not all, are pre stereo era (microgroove?) so presumably will play best with a 1mm stylus. How different is the sound if these are played with a 0.7mm stylus?
    I have some OJC Jazz reissues that are mono. I wonder if they are meant to be played with a 1 mil (not mm) stylus?

  3. #13
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhistance View Post
    Hi Tom,

    May I ask you a couple of questions please?

    The majority of my mono LP's, if not all, are pre stereo era (microgroove?) so presumably will play best with a 1mm stylus. How different is the sound if these are played with a 0.7mm stylus?

    How does the sound of the lesser Miyajima's, i.e. Kotetu or Spirit (if they are still available) compare with the mono SPU's?

    Lastly I know from our PM's that you have spent quite a bit of time with shims and headshell weights to make swapping between your various cartridges a quick and easy task. Have you had to measure/weigh each cartridge yourself or have you been able to rely on the manufacturers data, such as it is? As you know I'm looking for a simple solution and at the moment am tempted to just buy three (or more) SPU's to cover Stereo, Mono and 78's, albeit even that isn't plug and play given the large weight disparity between the two CG Mono cartridges and the stereo SPU's.

    Many thanks for all your help.

    David Whistance
    I've done quite a bit of back to back on this and in particular Petrat and I did a session at my place where we investigated this at length. Which one you buy will depend on the balance of your collection - a lot of people have later mono/reissues, but jazz and classical fans in particular tend to have a preponderance of older mono, with pop/rock fans having most of their mono made later.

    The distinguishing issue is whether the record was cut on stereo cutters or not. Early microgroove mono has a u-shaped groove most at home with a big 1.0 spherical, whereas later mono is v-shaped as it was cut on stereo cutters. Yes you can use a 0.7 spherical on these wide groove records, it will play, but it won't sound as good or as quiet as with a big 1.0 that fills the groove. I would most definitely avoid playing 0.7 cartridges with fancy stylus profiles (eliptical and the like) from the likes of Lyra with early mono as it just won't sound good at all. You can often get away with a fatter 1.0 spherical stylus on later mono but you might lose some detail and there's a small risk of damage (though it will be riding higher in the groove).

    Note that stereo cutting heads were not universal by the early 60s and I have monos as late as 1964 that are microgroove - this is rare but it does happen.

    I do all my measuring with a set of jewellers scales and fine tune with a digital stylus gauge on the turntable itself. Published data only gets you so far.

    You won't go wrong with a set of SPUs if that's what you fancy. In some cases with SPUs the weight disparity is planned as they track at different weights you might find they aren't so far out at all. At a push I guess you could always add some weight inside an SPU headshell, the base screws off.

    The result of the experiments BTW was that Petrat ended up buying both 1.0 and 0.7 Miyajima Zero cartridges - an expensive solution but a comprehensive one.

    Quote Originally Posted by garrard View Post
    I have some OJC Jazz reissues that are mono. I wonder if they are meant to be played with a 1 mil (not mm) stylus?

    Reissues often have all the microgroove labelling on the outside and are frequently pressed on thick vinyl so can feel like originals, but in my experience they will have been cut on a stereo cutter with a stereo era standard 0.7 groove, so you need the smaller tip for these. I'm not aware of any exceptions where authenticity has been taken to that extent but no doubt there is somebody somewhere out there cutting brand new microgroove reissues!

  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: Isle of Wight, UK

    Posts: 73
    I'm David.

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    Thank you Tom thats very helpful. Following on from the above I had more or less decided to go for two SPU's for mono and 78's - I'm too mean to invest in the Miyajima's without hearing them first. I therefore decided to phone Expert Stylus to follow up on an email conversation regarding SPU's. They however recommended the AT Mono-3's which they offer with a choice of styli much as they do for the Shure M44 series. They are more expensive than the off the shelf Audio Technica versions but still a fraction of the price of an SPU. Given Toms comment on these cartridges above I thought this would be worth trying so to get started I have ordered an AT Mono-3/SP with a 0.003" truncated conical stylus (standard is a 0.0028" conical). This should work well with the majority of my 78's which fall into the period from the mid 1930's to perhaps 1950. If it does then I will follow up with another with a 0.001" truncated elliptical stylus for my mono LP's. I will report back on this thread with my comments once I have the cartridge in place.

    David Whistance

  5. #15
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: London

    Posts: 129
    I'm Ked.

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    Hi - has anyone compared original mono LPs played with the Miya zero or some other genuine mono cart, to 45 rpm mono reissues by Analog Productions, Classic records etc - played by a mono or a stereo cart?

  6. #16
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    Hi - has anyone compared original mono LPs played with the Miya zero or some other genuine mono cart, to 45 rpm mono reissues by Analog Productions, Classic records etc - played by a mono or a stereo cart?
    Yes, I have. No difference in principle or practice. Playing mono LPs cut at whatever speed with a stereo cart is compromised, in comparison to using a mono cartridge.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    Hi - has anyone compared original mono LPs played with the Miya zero or some other genuine mono cart, to 45 rpm mono reissues by Analog Productions, Classic records etc - played by a mono or a stereo cart?
    I believe Tom & Peter (PetRat) have done that, with a Miles Davis Analogue Productions Box set of the Prestige dates. You'll have to search through the archives here to locate the thread.

    As i understand it the Classic Records Monos, were cut not as modern reissues, but with the same size cutting head as the original late 50's. So choosing the correct tip is pretty essential.
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  8. #18
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: London

    Posts: 129
    I'm Ked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Yes, I have. No difference in principle or practice. Playing mono LPs cut at whatever speed with a stereo cart is compromised, in comparison to using a mono cartridge.
    Fine, but what to buy - I believe that classic records and speakers corner did an excellent job with their stereo reissues, and am happy to have them over originals, especially due to cost, but also in many cases sonically. So, with mono, are the reissues better than the originals, sonically?

  9. #19
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    Fine, but what to buy - I believe that classic records and speakers corner did an excellent job with their stereo reissues, and am happy to have them over originals, especially due to cost, but also in many cases sonically. So, with mono, are the reissues better than the originals, sonically?
    I'm a complete tightarse I very seldom spend a lot of money on a record. I buy reissues only rarely and in any case most classical reissues are symphonic repertory or operatic extracts - not the solo piano, chamber music or Lieder recordings I like (and which on the whole are still accessible for sensible money in second hand record shops). I just noticed on PFM someone is selling some Nimbus Supercuts for up to £2k a pop - £900 for a recording of the Eagles. I simply don't understand that at all.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2013

    Location: London

    Posts: 129
    I'm Ked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I'm a complete tightarse I very seldom spend a lot of money on a record. I buy reissues only rarely and in any case most classical reissues are symphonic repertory or operatic extracts - not the solo piano, chamber music or Lieder recordings I like (and which on the whole are still accessible for sensible money in second hand record shops). I just noticed on PFM someone is selling some Nimbus Supercuts for up to £2k a pop - £900 for a recording of the Eagles. I simply don't understand that at all.
    Ok, good point. So the small good performances still on the originals

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