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Thread: Frugel horn. Would somebody care to explain the design?

  1. #71
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,473
    I'm Paul.

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    I find that sometimes the best speakers you hear are so great because they excel with the music that is being demonstrated. Play something else through them and then all the issues become obvious.
    ~Paul~

  2. #72
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,498
    I'm paul.

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    Firstly in reply to Tom, DIY open baffles or box speakers can be an inexpensive way to try out different designs and usually find what is wrong about those designs. You then have a better idea of what does work.
    I started a project with an open baffle 15" woofer and 8" wide range driver. I added a hf tractrix horn with a compression driver and then tri-amped it all. Next came a 400hz tractrix horn in place of the 8" driver.
    Later a 200hz tractrix horn and BMS compression driver replaced the 400hz horn. Sound improved with each change. Next the hf horn got the chop and Raal 140/15D replaced them. The flat baffle became an open backed box for the 15" woofer and improved the mounting for the tractrix horn. Various valve amps were used and finally solid state for the bass had a better grip on the 15" driver. Crossover was DEQX.
    Although the bass was the most musical and realistic I've heard it only went down to 50hz and so was compromised, much like most set ups, there are compromises of one thing or another.
    My project ended up costing in excess of 5 grand including all the amplifiers and dsp. Not a cheap way to find out what works and what doesn't. But all good fun to find out that a box speaker gave me what I wanted, when all along I hadn't liked box speakers.
    Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  3. #73
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalsea View Post
    I find that sometimes the best speakers you hear are so great because they excel with the music that is being demonstrated. Play something else through them and then all the issues become obvious.
    Yes that happens. I had a listen to some 2 way speakers that cost £11K. Light jazz, girl with guitar, that stuff where it is just a woman singing and someone hitting a block of wood with a stick; all came across lovely, like they were in the room. Put on something with a bit of bass and they embarrassed themselves almost immediately. Quite shocking, really.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #74
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Thought I'd better see what you're all talking about.

  5. #75
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    They'll definitely sound totally different to the Pioneers.

  6. #76
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    They'll definitely sound totally different to the Pioneers.
    You're not kidding, Geoff.

    Bass is there, obviously in a lesser amount to the CS-77A, but there. HF is there but it feels like there's a gaping hole in the Mids.

    Imaging is good. Detail is good but everything sounds very thin.

    I've got some Monitor Audio GS10 to try too. I don't think it'll be long before they are in.

    The thing I'm missing ingredients instantly is the size of the picture the Pioneer create. It all seem a lot smaller.

  7. #77
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    You're not kidding, Geoff.

    Bass is there, obviously in a lesser amount to the CS-77A, but there. HF is there but it feels like there's a gaping hole in the Mids.

    Imaging is good. Detail is good but everything sounds very thin.

    I've got some Monitor Audio GS10 to try too. I don't think it'll be long before they are in.

    The thing I'm missing ingredients instantly is the size of the picture the Pioneer create. It all seem a lot smaller.
    Which drive units in the FH3s?
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

  8. #78
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Small drivers mate. It's very hard to get decent 'scale' with them, although it can be done, but that usually involves big cabinets, which rather defeats the object.

  9. #79
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    I can see they're small drivers
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

  10. #80
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

    Posts: 9,139
    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    The reason for the question is that there are that many different drive units used in FH3s that it's impossible to get any real idea as to how things sound.
    I've used Mark Audio drivers in mine - the CHP-70 initially, and now with Alpair 7.3s.
    I really dislike the design with Fostex FE-126s. It's the Fostex drivers letting the side down.
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

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