Ker pow!!!

[Mike Reed]

With my old Tannoys I was more than happy to listen at low levels, In contrast, my old Linn Kans (don't laugh) were dead or flat at low levels and had to be turned up to enjoy the music.

The Kans, I know, are I.B.s (sealed boxes), and I'm guessing here that the Tannoys are not (don't know much about Tannoys). Could it not be than any I.B.s need a lot more welly to wake up? Certainly , all I've had did, incl. early Kans and SBLs (and even Briks) as opposed to ProAcs etcetera (ported).

This thread is becoming a wee bit technical for me (and that doesn't take much), and I haven't a clue what the ostensible contretemps is about. However, I have to acknowledge Dennis's written eloquence (once a teacher......)

[Marco]

However, I have to acknowledge Dennis's written eloquence...

Hey sir, what about mine?

Is it because Dennis came up with 'sophistry'? Tell me, I can take it!

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

Think of it this way,
Using the car analogy, take two, a Ford Fiesta, and say,, a Maclaren P1, both will do 60 miles per hour, However; the P1 if needed' will do it in around 2.8 seconds, where as the Fiesta would take around 9 seconds!
This is not an ideal comparison where voltages and current are concerned, but I hope it makes some sense as to the point I am making, I supose you could liken the comparison of Transistors and valves to Torque versus Horse power, again, its far from a perfect analogy, but it may help.

Anthony, did you see my post #57? If you could answer that when you get a chance, I'd appreciate it

Marco.

[Marco]

Ah, gotcha! I'm defo a torque kinda guy

Marco.

[fatmarley]

The Kans, I know, are I.B.s (sealed boxes), and I'm guessing here that the Tannoys are not (don't know much about Tannoys). Could it not be than any I.B.s need a lot more welly to wake up? Certainly , all I've had did, incl. early Kans and SBLs (and even Briks) as opposed to ProAcs etcetera (ported).

This thread is becoming a wee bit technical for me (and that doesn't take much), and I haven't a clue what the ostensible contretemps is about. However, I have to acknowledge Dennis's written eloquence (once a teacher......)

My Tannoys were ported as are the large majority.

I think there Is something In what you are saying, but It's not set In stone. I've heard people say the small sealed Harbeth P3ESR sounds good at low volumes

[Firebottle]

Been thinking how I could add to this debate viz valve against SS watts. The fact is nothing is perfect so I think it is the greater respective imperfections at high output levels that colour our acceptance.

Many have expressed that a cleaner sound (read less distorted) can be enjoyed at higher levels. Putting aside the ultimate output levels of different amplifiers, when 10 watts is used in a typical system it is LOUD. Any respectable amplifier can produce 10 watts, SETs excluded of course.

Valves are considered to be more linear than transistors and it is my belief that, although valve amplifiers may have higher harmonic distortions, it is the greater discordant distortion artefacts that are generated by solid state circuits that really give rise to the preference for valve watts.

The precise distortion that I am considering is intermodulation distortion which adds and subtracts all the different notes and tones in music to develop a low level hash that is objectionable and muddies the sound.
The better linearity of valves makes it easier to design for reduced IM distortion without having to resort to large amounts of negative feedback.

A lot of additional tricks can be incorporated in valve circuitry to combat distortions, that are seldom seen in commercial offerings but are popular in the DIY fraternity.

[Macca]

But if you have harmonic distortion then you must have intermodulation distortion as well. You can't have one without the other.

[Marco]

Thanks for your input, Alan, which is interesting.

I'm going to put forward the below as a possible hypothesis for why many of us who own good valve amps (such as you yourself design) consider that they're better able to resolve low-level musical information, present in recordings, without having to turn the volume up so loudly, in comparison with SS designs:

The better linearity of valves makes it easier to design for reduced IM distortion without having to resort to large amounts of negative feedback.

Anthony's views on that, and also Andrew's, would be interesting.

It's the (often significant) levels of such feedback, applied by solid-state amplifiers to the music signal, which for me veils the sound, subsequently masking information, and why some have to be turned up louder than valve amps, before the sound that they produce 'comes alive'.

Marco.

P.S Dennis will probably 'conveniently' ignore this, too!

[walpurgis]

Remember when TID was THE big thing?

[Firebottle]

But if you have harmonic distortion then you must have intermodulation distortion as well. You can't have one without the other.

As I said nothing is perfect but you can have much reduced IM distortion along with harmonic distortion. The methods of generation can be quite different.