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Thread: Equipment Cones, Spikes, Feet and Pads.

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,021
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The more I get into this hobby the more I think that probably isn't true. I mean we can all tell a poor sounding system from a good one. But once the sound is good it starts being more a matter of personal choice and psychology. A lot of psychology. The one exception to that is imaging. Some good systems image absolutely unbelievably well, and some don't. But I think the reasons for that are verifiable and have nothing to do with whether or not you have isolated your laptop with stillpoints.

    I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.

    I should have added valve components to my list of things that will benefit from isolation from vibration, bit of an oversight on my part there. When I had a valve phono stage I did use some Audio Technica sprung feet under it. Although I couldn't tell the difference and if I didn't already have the feet (part of a job-lot eBay purchase) I wouldn't have gone out and got any.
    I agree, if there is something seriously wrong with the way a system sounds, no amount of cords or vibration control is going to sort it out. I got into it with someone on another forum about this, a man said he had a woefully underpowered amp driving some giant speakers, and wanted to know if there was a tweak that could make it work! Someone suggested that an expensive power cord would fix it, I begged to differ. Name calling ensued.

    The sound of any system needs to be intrinsically right before you can appreciate the small benefits that tweaks can bring. I have yet to hear any tweak that made, “Night and Day”, differences.

    Russell

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 78,151
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else.
    I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?

    You know me, I don't use anything unless to my ears it works, and so I can assure you that my system would sound notably worse (especially housed in the relatively small room it's in with a suspended wooden floor), if those items weren't being so effectively supported on said stands

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 78,151
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default Too many possible variables...

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.
    And was that room the same, in terms of dimensions and acoustics, the system and ancillaries the same, and the music played the same, in order for you to draw a meaningful conclusion on the effectiveness or otherwise of said items you're completely dismissing?

    Don't get me wrong, I've heard the very same thing at shows from the types of systems you mention.

    However, not even the most effective supports/isolation and/or decoupling devices can override expensive equipment that flatters to deceive [such as is the case with overpriced 'badge-fi'], plus you can over-egg the pudding with the use of the former, especially if it's been designed to dampen vibration, and then suck the life out of the music.

    I'd suggest a combination of both as being as likely a reason as any, as to why the systems in question you heard sounded so poor.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 2,131
    I'm Buriedunderaloadofturntables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?
    I always assumed it was because you are tall and to save you having to bend down so much...
    Adam.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 78,151
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    Lol - that's definitely one of the reasons, plus having everything up so high certainly helps with 'cable dressing' and getting all of the cables up off the floor and neatly arranged, as unlike most, I can access the back of all my gear relatively easily and ensure that the cables don't look like a rats nest!

    Keeping signal cables well away from mains cables also helps improve the sound, and is another example in audio of 'good practice'

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  6. #26
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 181
    I'm Bruce.

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    Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

    Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
    Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
    Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

    For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

    Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.
    Last edited by brucew268; 13-03-2018 at 10:38. Reason: added caveat
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Calyx 24/192 DAC, tweaked laptop w/JRMC. Amplification: Pass DIY B1rev2 pre, Classe Audio 70. Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1sc. Cables/stands: spkr MIT MH-750 / HT Truthlink XLR, Vampire AI2, RFC Pluto, heavy sand-filled Target stands for speakers and Hi-Fi. Bass traps in corners, acoustic panels at first reflection points. Isolation: Roller bearings & cups, inner tubes. Mains: Balanced power transformer feeding hydra mains block.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 153
    I'm Alex.

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    Maybe a small Whoopee cushion

  8. #28
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,021
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brucew268 View Post
    Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

    Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
    Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
    Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

    For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

    Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.
    Have you heard of a company called Cloud 9? They make isolation platforms for record players, but I’m sure you could make something similar for your amp? Basically, two particle board shelves, with rubber balls in between. Perhaps handballs, or tennis balls? Drill a small dimple to keep them in place, and the band around the top half keeps it from sliding off.

    Russell

  9. #29
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 181
    I'm Bruce.

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    Is that the Cloud 9 series made by Gingko? It looks like perhaps they've taken the squash ball and fashioned a nicely finished stable platform for them. Prices seem a bit high for them if that's what they've done, unless they've had the balls made bespoke to their own specifications. Nice that they've included some resonant frequency information, though the weight-to-frequency data is a bit sparse.
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Calyx 24/192 DAC, tweaked laptop w/JRMC. Amplification: Pass DIY B1rev2 pre, Classe Audio 70. Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1sc. Cables/stands: spkr MIT MH-750 / HT Truthlink XLR, Vampire AI2, RFC Pluto, heavy sand-filled Target stands for speakers and Hi-Fi. Bass traps in corners, acoustic panels at first reflection points. Isolation: Roller bearings & cups, inner tubes. Mains: Balanced power transformer feeding hydra mains block.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 181
    I'm Bruce.

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    Gingko's explanation of ball configuration tends to support my theory about softer(isolation) vs harder(coupling) materials in the other thread in the Artist's Pallette.
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Calyx 24/192 DAC, tweaked laptop w/JRMC. Amplification: Pass DIY B1rev2 pre, Classe Audio 70. Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1sc. Cables/stands: spkr MIT MH-750 / HT Truthlink XLR, Vampire AI2, RFC Pluto, heavy sand-filled Target stands for speakers and Hi-Fi. Bass traps in corners, acoustic panels at first reflection points. Isolation: Roller bearings & cups, inner tubes. Mains: Balanced power transformer feeding hydra mains block.

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