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Thread: to damp or not to damp magico vs harbeth/russell k

  1. #1
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 1,740
    I'm Phil.

    Default to damp or not to damp magico vs harbeth/russell k

    had a fascinating day yesterday listening to the uk premiere of the new `affordable`1 magico a3 with various folks from absolute sounds hif i pig etc . Alon Wolf presented them [ the designer and maker of magico] and they were simply lovely . no coloration at all , just very detailed with that attack and decay on all the notes . kj west one were the hosts and a great job they did too . it was worth 5-6 hours of travel to hear these

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    as he was talking of course they mention the fact that the the enclosures on these are incredibly heavy and inert . as we walked in there was the whole range of the harbeth speakers and the absolutely massive 40.1 . gosh they are so big !!!

    if there had been time i would love to have asked him about the various other designers philosophy about thin walled design such as harbeth and russell k in particular

    "At Harbeth, that certain way is the classic British box: a thin-walled enclosure that controls resonances by means of panel tuning rather than sheer mass, said box containing drivers of generally low coloration and reasonably high sensitivity. "

    In describing the construction of that British box, I mentioned my disappointment that its front and rear baffles were fastened to the enclosure not with machine screws and threaded inserts but with mere wood screws driven into furring strips. I implied that that was a less-than-perfectly tight or rigid join, and I was correct—and, as further research has shown, that's precisely what the designer of a thin-walled loudspeaker is after.

    Ideally, different panels will resonate at different frequencies: the low-amplitude energy can be spread over a wide range and swept into a corner, where it's least likely to be noticed. Yet to prevent the cabinet as a whole from resonating, there must be gaps or interruptions between individual panels, and especially between the front baffle and the wrap. Recent conversations with luthier Richard Hoover, founder of the Santa Cruz Guitar Company, confirm the notion that different methods of joining and bracing two structures can be used to enhance or prevent the flow of acoustical energy from one structure to the other, and that experienced craftspeople will manipulate these variables in different ways, depending on how they want the structure as a whole to behave


    Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/...JjIcQsr07dT.99

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    Last edited by hifinutt; 09-02-2018 at 10:39. Reason: spelling
    1]bel canto pre 3 vbs /MSB s200 , / Marantz sa8005/ bel canto fm1
    sonos, . tannoy eaton legacy 2]velleman 8020 pre , firebottle mono`s onkyo sacd bel canto 3.5vbss and RFC impulse ta`us , track audio stands

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 1,740
    I'm Phil.

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    listening yesterday to some harbeths shl5plus which sound delightful , interesting to compare to the magico with all their damping

    anyone any thoughts on damping . ?

    the russel K seem to be very popular and i note of the red 50

    The Red 50ís are the smallest of the Standmount speakers from the ever growing Russell K range measuring in at H- 310mm W-205mm D-200mm. Constructed from 16mm MDF all round apart from the front baffle which is 19mm MDF and rear port tuned to 55Hz, the completely undamped cabinet does have an internal acoustically tuned shelf with several ports or holes above the woofer.

    http://hifipig.com/russell-k-red-50-loudspeakers/
    1]bel canto pre 3 vbs /MSB s200 , / Marantz sa8005/ bel canto fm1
    sonos, . tannoy eaton legacy 2]velleman 8020 pre , firebottle mono`s onkyo sacd bel canto 3.5vbss and RFC impulse ta`us , track audio stands

  3. #3
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 20,176
    I'm Martin.

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    I'm not a fan of internal damping and stuffing, not a fan of thin-walled cabs either. But you can't take these things in isolation from all the other factors that make up a speaker. And there are a lot of them. The important thing is that the speaker has been designed with a coherent strategy. If that has been done then it just comes down to what you like, what you expect a good hi-fi speaker to sound like.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200P CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    'The best I advice I ever received was to always remember that no-one else has any idea what they are doing either.'

  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 409
    I'm Spartacus.

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    Thanks for the report. I got the invite but no longer have the luxury for these things. I was in the same room when Alan Shaw presented the new SLH5 Plus and was very impressed. I've heard several models and have never been convinced, but this sounded very good. You could have asked for a quick comparison!
    Cheers, Jeff

  5. #5
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 1,740
    I'm Phil.

    Default

    yes i would have loved to compare the magico with some harbs but no time really . the a3 would fit in a smaller room better than a 40.1 probably
    1]bel canto pre 3 vbs /MSB s200 , / Marantz sa8005/ bel canto fm1
    sonos, . tannoy eaton legacy 2]velleman 8020 pre , firebottle mono`s onkyo sacd bel canto 3.5vbss and RFC impulse ta`us , track audio stands

  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 623
    I'm Dennis.

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    There are two distinct categories of need for mechanical damping, (i) the cabinet re-emitting energy imparted to it by the drivers, and which it emits as a delayed resonance characteristic of the structures, and, (ii) the possible needs for; damping the designed fundamental bass resonance, which should be unnecessary in a well designed system, and absorbing internal energy from the rear of the cone to dispense with it, it often coming out of the port to some degree.

    The former is done with various dense layers on the panels, bitumen and rubber sheet, and lead sheet has even been used. The latter is with wadding or foam, BAF, and many years ago long haired wool, these absorbing internal airborne energy.

    Personally I am not a fan of the BBC thin walled principle, not least because it usually compromises bass O/P.

    The more rigid a cabinet is, the less tendency it has to absorb energy; imagine all your 19mm cabs were made of cast alloy of the same dimensions, I bet that would be dead. So bracing is a very helpful option, but commercially too expensive to do well. My own cabs have 53 wood braces and struts in each, and they are dead, and this is where the amateur wins.

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