Please help! Ortofon 2M Bronze on a PL-71

[phonomac]

Remember that the tonearm effective mass includes the headshell. Don't go double-counting

[Svend N]

Quite so. If Dave's value of 18g is correct, incl stock headshell, then using a 12g one would put him in the range of 21g +/-, assuming the stock one is about 9g or so. Best guess here....

[Cas]

If they are that finicky, how does it work with different thicknesses of vinyl, sounds a right pain in the arse.

Have to agree with this, I spent quite a while trying to get a 2m Black running right to my ears, sold it to somebody here in the end.

Then went and notched it down to a 2m Blue, sweet, have not looked back

[Svend N]

This shouldn't discourage Dave from working at his Bronze to get it dialed in. The Bronze is not a Black - different stylus - and his deck/arm is likely different also. There are enough folks here and elsewhere who've been able make the Bronze sound great, me included. It's probably a simple fix...he just needs to figure out what the issue is.

[mac72]

If your arm has eff mass of 18gram with headshell you should be fine , swap to the lighter one , set cartridge to your best and run it for 20-30 hours then recheck all settings .To confirm your arm is good for "M Bronze you should buy test record and check frequency resonance , something like HiFi News or similar would do , it helps a bit with anti-skate and azimuth as well .

[Dizastical]

UPDATE

Over the weekend I took the 2M Bronze off the Pro-Ject Signature headshell. I had a brand new Ortofon SH-4 headshell that comes in at 9 grams. I decided to mount the Bronze on the SH-4. I used the lightest mounting screws I could find to save as much weight as possible. I re-aligned the cartridge, set VTF with a digital scale and then checked Azimuth. The cartridge need the tiniest bit of Azimuth adjustment to get it spot on. This may have been fine for most but my OCD wouldnt let me leave it. I loosened the fixing collar on the tonearm and was able to put clockwise pressure on the headshell while re-tightening the collar. I checked Azimuth again. BOOM! dead on! I then used the Azimuth gauge to check how level the headshell is to the playing surface. It was a little more tail down than it was with the Pro-Ject Signature headshell. I left it as is to see what the effects would be. So to be clear I left VTA exactly at the arm height it was at prior to swapping to the SH-4 headshell. VTF is set to 1.7. Used test record and set anti skate.

I was very uncertain that I would notice any results that would make me happy. BUT I figured that using a headshell that is 3 grams lighter had to make a difference right? I know the calculator said I would need a headshell that weighs about 7 grams to hit the 8-12hz sweet spot and I DO have the stock pioneer headshell which I believe is 7 grams, BUT I wanted to try the more rigid Ortofon headshell. Plus I have my 2M Blue on a SH-4 and it sounded great on this arm. Well...... I was totally floored! To my ears I hit the sweet spot and oh my is it sweet! The sound stage is huge! I gained height and width. The highs are perfect. I keep thinking they are going to miss behave at times but they have not! The mid bass is finally full and detailed. The bass is awesome. Its not smeared or bloated. Very fast and deep punch. Not overpowering in any way. I now have 10 full records on the Bronze. I know I have a long way to go before break in but wow does it sound amazing now. I played my pretty used copy of Steely Dans Gaucho last night. I couldnt stop smiling. The sound raised the hairs on my arms. I think I have nailed it guys! I want to thank everyone for all your help. And thank you for being patient with my rookie questions. I have learned a ton in the last month of tinkering with this PL-71.

Now do I replace it with a Rega Planar 6 or keep it haha?

Dave

[Svend N]

Hurrah! Well done Dave. So glad that worked out for you. And good on ya for sticking through it and not giving up. I had a strong feeling this would turn out OK for you, as I had the same (or at least very nearly the same) arm on my Heybrook, and as mentioned it sounded great with the Bronze. I really wonder now if it will sound even better with that lighter headshell (ducking here, to avoid Dave's hurled objects ). Seriously, if it sounds great as it is, then better to leave well enough alone and just enjoy the music.

BTW, I will be mounting that arm and cart on a Rega P3, and am really looking forward to how that will sound.

As for a Rega P6...gee, that's a tough one. Those old Japanese DD decks really sound great. Would you move the Bronze over to the P6? Reason I ask is that I originally had my Bronze mounted on a Rega RB300 arm, and wasn't really wowed by the sound. Kinda boring. A Goldring 1022 sounds much better on the RB300, and the Bronze works better on the R200/Acos arm. The today's Rega RB arms are descended from the RB300, so not sure if they would work well with the Bronze. Others who know this combo may be able to answer that one...

Cheers, and enjoy.
Svend

PS -- nice choice of music...love Steely Dan

[Dizastical]

Svend,
Thanks for all the help! The Pioneer headshell just looks flimsy and cheap if you know what I mean. Thats the only reason I did not mount the Bronze to it. The SH-4 is just more solid you know. I did wonder the same though haha. I think Im going to leave it for now. It sounds too good to change. As for the Rega Planar 6..... If I get one it would be the new version with the RB330 arm. I would use the 2M Bronze. I have not done much searching yet to see if the Bronze works well with the RB330 arm. Im not sure if I want to keep the PL-71. It sounds amazing but is finicky. Is the Planar 6 in a different league all together? Keep in mind the only receiver I have is a Pioneer SX-750. Im not sure how a Rega would sound through this receiver. It may not be a good match. Maybe I should keep the vintage set up and start a new system with a digital (current technology) amp and a newer style turntable. Im torn.

Dave

[Svend N]

Hi Dave,

I hear you about the flimsy headshell. If you've got a good match now with the SH-4, then I wouldn't mess with a good thing. TBH, the Rega headshell that came on my arm also feels a bit flimsy, so I may try that SH-4 myself and see how it works.

As for the P6, gee, I really can't say. I know it's a very good deck, but how much better than the Pioneer I couldn't say. There are a few owners of the PL-71 here, and the archives have a couple of long threads about it. Might be worth a read for some insight into how it rates vs. others. Or post a new thread asking that question....

I do know that some have commented on the diminishing cost vs. quality returns as you go up the Rega line. The new Planar 3 seems to hit the sweet spot with most, as the best bang for the buck. Further, I'm not sure that going up the range would be advisable given your present amp -- the P6 may outclass it. Unless of course you wanted to upgrade it at the same time...

In any case, given all the work you've put into the Pioneer, I'd say it's time to pour a beer and sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Best,
Svend

[Dubster68]

Tracking angle stated same as the Black then. Always found a slightly negative rake is where the sweetspot is at, never parrallel with any of the Blacks Ive had and Ive had all three 2M, Quintet and now Cadenza - all 20 deg.

As Rob said above

They tend to sound better with a little negative rake. I nearly sold mine as it was a pain but once its set it will sound do much better Dave. Also get a few more hours on it and it should change the sound over time.