Yamaha NS-1000M A Fresh Start

[Barry]

Beautiful and professional-looking workmanship there! well done,

[karma67]

id have to agree,very tidy work,i wish i understood more about what you doing and how it affects the speakers for the better.

[Qwin]

Beautiful and professional-looking workmanship there! well done,

Thanks Barry, its taken time to get here but worth the effort, even with 20hrs on the set up its sounding very good, not sure I believe in the 500 to 1000 hrs required to run in a class D I've seen quoted, I find that discrete op-amps take about 100hrs and no audible improvement from there, so I will give everything 100 hrs before reviewing the sound.

Jamie - It's basically an NS1000m on steroids.
I have the speakers bi-amplified, one stereo amp drives the two Woofers and one drives the Mid/Tweeters with the benefits that brings in control.
By using the active crossover I have removed the bank of 6 capacitors from the passive x-over, which were in series with the mid range driver, this improved the mid range detail and clarity.
The passive filter for the mid to twtr hand over has better quality components, which are closely matched, this and my discrete op-amp choice in the active filter, before the passive element, gives a much smoother less forward and less sibilant treble, which also has the benefit of making the speakers less Amp fussy. Replacing the Yamaha Woofer with the Scanspeak has taken the F3 from 52Hz to 29Hz, both measured in my room, which does give some bass lift. This extra depth is very noticeable on tracks that go there and there is no loss of quality, I would go as far as to say the quality in the upper bass has improved. The response of the Scanspeak is much flatter.

It is just all round better in every way you could wish for and somewhat more musical.

I always liked the basic sound of the Yammies, the forward treble and lack of deep bass niggled me. It has taken 3 years, but I've finally managed to eradicate the things I wasn't content with and without loosing the character that drew me to them in the first place. All this is just hot air without other opinions though, people will have to judge for themselves, if and when they get to hear them. I can't see me ever changing from this set up, it gives me what I want, but may not suite everyone.

[Qwin]

Like I said earlier, the mains hum has been eliminated.

Now that has gone I can hear a much lower level hiss, minor, only audible a couple of meters from the drivers between tracks, but I was expecting a VERY quite background.
I did some box swapping and eliminated the new class D amps, also my active crossover.
The only common factor left was my Pre Amp.
I bi-passed this with my NAD Master series DAC, which can also acts as a digital Pre Amp, that's the culprit, quite as the grave through the NAD.

My Project RS Pre Amp has a valve output stage, maybe some slight valve rush present?
Whatever the cause, I have eliminated it, I can hardly tell the system is switched on now, even with my ear up to the drivers at Idle, or when playing with the volume down.

Edit: It's funny, but with the new, for the first time fully balanced set up, my fridge starting and stopping no longer makes clicks and pops through the speakers.

[Edward]

Really lovely Ken. Good to hear you rid yourself of hum and your fridge is no longer intrusive.

Your thread is very educational and has given me some thoughts on my project (still vaporware ) for which thanks for your help.

It will be fascinating to see/read about your cabinet build when you get to it.

I see you get various stuff from ESP. You probably have now got everything you need but in case not my daughters are flying back from Oz in August. So if you want more stuff from ESP drop me a PM.

[Qwin]

Thanks Edward, and thanks for the offer, all the serious electrical is done though. I used ESP power supply board, crossover board and a pair of balanced transmitter boards. Rod also gave me good advice. He knows what he is talking about, his site is a wealth of information and tempting projects.

[FrostEOne]

Here's some capacitor comparisons I came across. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
You've inspired me to recap my oldest set of NS1000M serial 15,xxx as they no longer have the sound of my slightly newer set Serial 33,xxx
I've decided to use all Mundorf:
4 - 47uF 70VDC 50VAC Mundorf E-Cap Plain
2 - 2.7uf 600v Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor
2- 1.5uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor & 4 - 1uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor to replace 3.5uf
8 - 3.3uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor & 4 - 3.9uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor to replace the 6 - 3.5uf
Keeps all values correct, haven't decided whether to use any bypass caps or not, will experiment there.
Thanks for enhancing my desire to recap!

[Qwin]

Here's some capacitor comparisons I came across. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
You've inspired me to recap my oldest set of NS1000M serial 15,xxx as they no longer have the sound of my slightly newer set Serial 33,xxx
I've decided to use all Mundorf:
4 - 47uF 70VDC 50VAC Mundorf E-Cap Plain
2 - 2.7uf 600v Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor
2- 1.5uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor & 4 - 1uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor to replace 3.5uf
8 - 3.3uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor & 4 - 3.9uF 600V Mundorf MCap Supreme Capacitor to replace the 6 - 3.5uf
Keeps all values correct, haven't decided whether to use any bypass caps or not, will experiment there.
Thanks for enhancing my desire to recap!

Your welcome

I've been using the humble cap comparison for several years and for the caps I have experience with, ClarityCap ESA, Ansar Supersound, Jantzen Superior Z, Mundorf Superior, Sonicap Gen1, to name a few, I find the description on the site to be very accurate as far as their use in crossovers goes. I personally have never had any luck with bypassing, whenever I have done it I ended up reversing it, as ultimately the sound was somehow not right. There was a difference in sound and some things improved, but at the expense of others, came to the conclusion each time, it sounded more natural without, YMMV.

I've found the Jantzen Superior Z to have a slightly cleaner top end to the Mundorf Superior, and the Mundorf to have slightly fuller bass, but not much in it, they are both good caps for crossovers. I used the Mundorfs myself in my NS1000M recap. For this final build using new boards and air cored coils, I used the Jantzen, as the passive crossover is only operating in the 6KHz region, so the top end properties were more important. The active crossover handles the 500Hz hand over.

Using one manufacturer can work, but I have mixed things up in the past. One cap that does not like being mixed with others is the Sonicap Gen1, if you ever use these, use them throughout.

[FrostEOne]

Ken,

I've read your NS1000M recap thread also.

I have the Ansar Supersound caps you used first and the Mundorf MCap MKP caps you used next.

Also 2 - Mundorf Supreme 22uf (within 5% of 21uf) and 2 - Sonicap Gen1 3.5uf (doesn't sound like I should use them with others)

I was told the Mundorf MKP in the midrange would be too bright/forward. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Mark

[Qwin]

Ken,

I've read your NS1000M recap thread also.

I have the Ansar Supersound caps you used first and the Mundorf MCap MKP caps you used next.

Also 2 - Mundorf Supreme 22uf (within 5% of 21uf) and 2 - Sonicap Gen1 3.5uf (doesn't sound like I should use them with others)

I was told the Mundorf MKP in the midrange would be too bright/forward. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Mark

Hi Mark - There is not that much difference between the Ansar and Mundorf MKP, they are both mid price/performance PP caps.
I find the Ansar to have a slight focus on the top end the Mundorf a bit more balanced over the whole spectrum and maybe sounding a bit smoother at the top due to it not highlighting it as much. We are talking small differences.

To achieve much improvement, you would have to spend more on the mid range and the large value does not help in that regard. Mundorf Supreme or Jantzen Superior Z Cap etc and gains are subtle for the considerable outlay. My semi active set up does away with this 21uF bundle of caps for the 500hz high pass filter. This improves things a lot so it highlights the contribution these caps make to the overall sound.

You should match the caps as close as possible to the value required as it defines the crossover point, the bundle of Mundorf MKP I used were measured and matched to be within 0.1% of 21uf. Maybe overkill, but 1% would be good. I have found Jantzen Superior Z Caps to be very close to the stated value, they are rated +/- 2% but I measured 8 of these and the worst one was within 1% the rest were within 0.5%.

Remember your equipment is going to effect the overall results and only you can decide what type of sound you prefer anyway.

ClarityCap ESA have a warm mid range, but lack definition IMO, bit woolly. Humble cap tests say adding a percentage of Mundorf Supreme sorts this, maybe this is a way of keeping the cost down? I have not tried this, so can not comment, much of this is trial and error with no black or white solutions as equipment/taste is a variable.

I wouldn't get too hung up on capacitors, the circuit and drivers characteristics are what they are, different makes of cap will make small changes, cables could have as much impact. As long as you have caps within spec, either the Ansar or Mundorf, they will work well.

The NS1000M is all about the midrange driver, it is the dominating factor in the presentation, the tweeter contributes little and the woofers performance is average. With crossover points of 500Hz/6KHz it has a wide frequency band and is the main thing you hear, try disconnecting the drivers one at a time and you will see what I mean.

I have had to go to considerable lengths in cost and complication to change things by any significant amount, which should also be borne in mind.