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Thread: Yamaha NS-1000M A Fresh Start

  1. #51
    Join Date: Jun 2018

    Location: SE Iowa

    Posts: 70
    I'm Mark.

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    Ken, thanks for the info, agree the 22uf isn't close enough, that's why I went to 4 - 3.3uf and 2 - 3.9 uf to make the 21uf. I considered an active crossover before purchasing caps, I admire what your doing, a bit beyond my capacity though. -Mark

  2. #52
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

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    I'm Ken.

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    It's not as complicated as it looks Mark!

    All the elements, PSU/crossover/balanced transmitters are individual projects on Rod Elliotts web site, I just put them together in one box and upgraded all the parts.

    If using single ended (RCA) connections, the balanced transmitters are not needed and the fully documented instructions use ordinary chip op-amps for the build.

    You can construct a complete 3 way crossover with attenuation on each channel from the instructions, many scenarios are covered.

    I started with KMTech boards (ebay UK) which use a similar circuit, you can even buy these ready built and just specify your required crossover points. The down side is the ready made use Polyester caps and not the best op-amps. Its how I first got my feet wet on the subject.

  3. #53
    Join Date: Jun 2018

    Location: SE Iowa

    Posts: 70
    I'm Mark.

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    wow, Rod Elliotts web site is going to take some reading, thanks
    which project are you using for guidelines?
    here is what I was looking at a while back http://www.marchandelec.com/index.html

  4. #54
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

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    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrostEOne View Post
    wow, Rod Elliotts web site is going to take some reading, thanks
    which project are you using for guidelines?
    here is what I was looking at a while back http://www.marchandelec.com/index.html
    The PSU - Project 05 Pre Amp Power Supply. - I have this set for +/- 12vdc and is as quite as the grave powering the x-over/balanced transmitters.
    The X-over - Project 09 24dB/Octave 2/3 way Xover. - I am using a 2way.
    The Balanced Transmitter - Project 87 Balanced Line Drivers II.

    When you buy the boards you get a password that allows you access to a secure part of the site, that gives all the component values and build tips. Rod uses the money from the PCB sales to fund the site and develop more projects. There is a x-over calculator on the open access part of the site that will give you the resistor and capacitor values required in project 09 for any x-over frequency required.

    His guides and basic theory pages are a must read, well written and easy to follow tutorials, I learnt a lot from these. Five years ago I could hardly put a passive cross over together from instructions, I have worked on projects (his and others) of ever increasing complexity from there and improved my soldering skills etc along the way. It's a very rewarding pastime.

    I had seen those ready made x-overs and some others using valves, all a bit expensive though.

    I could have gone the whole way and had a completely active 3way crossover.
    This would be more expensive, needing more channels of amplification, but I didn't think this was necessary anyway. The Passive element I used is the standard NS1000m circuit and is so simple/effective. The tweeter has one capacitor in series and a coil in parallel. The midrange (normally bandpass) only needs a 6kHz low pass filter, consisting of a coil in series and a cap in parallel as the passive crossover is only fed 500Hz + from the active crossover. You need a cap in series with the tweeter anyway to protect it. These second order filters are about as simple as you can get, so not expensive when using good quality parts, due to their low number and values. It seemed a perfectly logical solution for my needs. The midrange no longer has the big bank of (21uF) capacitors in series with it and opens up nicely.
    Last edited by Qwin; 03-07-2018 at 10:06.

  5. #55
    Join Date: Jun 2018

    Location: SE Iowa

    Posts: 70
    I'm Mark.

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    Ken, you have definitely stirred the pot here, I'm intrigued. Have a lot of reading to absorb now!
    I'm just easing my way in, built Transcendent Sound's Son-of-Beast OTL and their Grounded Grid preamplifier so far, Yamaha crossovers will be 3rd project.
    Last edited by FrostEOne; 03-07-2018 at 20:55.

  6. #56
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

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    I'm Ken.

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    Take your time and read everything Rod has to say about active crossovers and the #09 project.

    Are you single ended or balanced in the rest of your set up?

    The 09 x-over board can be wired for either input method, it is however a single ended circuit, the input buffer op-amp is used to combine the two halves of a balanced input. You can add the balanced output transmitter boards, as I did, if you want to keep a balanced set up. These use a pair of op-amps which act as line drivers to send the signal over longer distances. The first op-amp is the non inverted signal and the second inverts this for the other half of the balanced output.
    Last edited by Qwin; 03-07-2018 at 21:34.

  7. #57
    Join Date: Jun 2018

    Location: SE Iowa

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    I'm Mark.

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    Ken, single ended RCA here. Still reading, lot to absorb.
    -Mark

  8. #58
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrostEOne View Post
    Ken, single ended RCA here. Still reading, lot to absorb.
    -Mark
    Yes, he has built up quite a library of articles and a huge number of projects.

    Check out things like his views on op-amp and power rail by-pass caps etc.

    The 09 x-over boards, have all the options on a single board, so you would just wire and fit parts for the single ended input method.
    You don't need the Balanced transmitter boards I used.
    There is an output buffer option on each output channel, I spoke to Rod and he said it was debatable if this section was needed, if your power amps were close, say a meter or two, it was for longer distances to avoid HF loss. You could leave the buffers out and just use the multi turn pots (catered for on the PCB) to control the output to match your drivers/Amps sensitivity.
    You will need two boards for a 3way set up.
    If your not used to op-amp circuits, the schematic can look daunting, but its just the same basic circuit cascaded several times.

    Having built quite a few variants of this type of circuit now, I can probably talk you through any areas your not sure about, so feel free to ask away.

  9. #59
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Well I have 150 hrs on the Amps and Crossover and things have settled nicely.

    The things which niggled me about the NS1000m, the forward and in my opinion somewhat sibilant treble has gone and the already punchy bass now has depth to match. The semi active x-over combination coupled with the Nord amps has power and control, they have a damping factor of something like 2000! Timber and detail, texture on strings etc has improved. Voices are virtually sibilance free, if there's any evident on a track its probably in the recording.
    The background is totally silent, even when you go right up to the speakers, the Nord (Hypex) amps have this reputation, but the rest of your system has to be able to match this level of Blackness.

    I have finally got to a place were I can listen to the music and forget about the gear, as it doesn't draw attention to itself. I'm sure this current set up is more musical than the stock NS1000M, it still has that monitor accuracy going on, but not quite as much in your face, just a little more subtle for home listening. I will have to try and do a direct comparison with the stock speakers at some point. I've been through some classic designs, Tannoy Cheviot, Celestion 66 Monitors and finally the modified Yamaha's. The more I hear this latest combination, the more convinced I am that these are my final Speakers.

    The NAD master series DAC works great as a digital Pre Amp, but it has to go, as there is no way of accommodating my vinyl set up. So my next steps are to build the final cabinets for the speakers and arrange a demo of the PS Audio Stellar Dac/Pre, which has both digital and analogue inputs.

  10. #60
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Got any links? It's a huge site to trawl through and I'd be quite interested to read his thoughts on op-amps and power rail bypass caps.
    I haven't unfortunately, it influenced me when specifying caps, and gave some substance as to why Rod had specified what he had, I just can't remember where it is on the site, so would have to trawl through it myself.

    I seem to remember I did a google search on the subject and Rods site came up as a hit, the link took you straight to the page, you might try that.

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