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Thread: Top CD player wanted

  1. #311
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Geoff.

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    Although I am reasonably tech savvy, I have no experience with Linux. However, by following instructions and trial and a process of trial and error, I was able to set up an RPi streamer. The latest version of Volumio is pretty straightforward and so long as you follow the instructions rigorously, can get a basic system up and running.

    I understand that not everyone is able or willing to go down this path. To use a skiing analogy, I would equate RPi systems as a blue/red run (on the ascending scale of difficulty of green, blue, red, black). Of course, for some, a green run carries the terror equivalent of a black run for others. Their perception of streaming technology is unlikely to be changed by any posts on this forum. Having said that, who would have predicted the rise of smartphones 20 years ago, or the widespread adoption of streaming technology in the form of Netflix, iPlayer, or Amazon Prime. I am guessing that more than 90% of new tvs are smart devices, with built in apps for a range of streaming services. Most of these devices will have an optical output so that audio can be fed into a dac or one of the new generation of combined dac/amps. Given that most younger folk do not appear to buy cds or even whole albums any more, I would predict an exponential growth in the adoption of audio streaming over the next decade, as has occurred with tv and movies.

    Is there the audio steaming equivalent of the Polaroid Camera in existence now? I would say yes. The Cocktail Audio devices have already been mentioned. The Cambridge CXN can be used as a Web Radio Streamer, and by plugging an external usb drive in, one can stream ripped files without the hassle of locating drives on networks.

    I would nominate a device that is still in production after several years (I still have mine) https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-WDBPUF00...dp_ob_title_ce

    Consider this the audiovisual Swiss Army Knife. It connects to your tv or monitor, and has an optical out for audio too. It comes with a remote control and a really user friendly interface via the tv. It will play almost any digital format both audio and visual. The quality is very good and especially so at the price. Again, all you need to do is plug a usb drive with your files into the usb slot and away you go, although you can also access media on a local network too. Definitely the equivalent of a green run.

    Geoff

  2. #312
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 1,064
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    ...Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology
    I resemble that remark !

  3. #313
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    From me originally:

    "That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.

    Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through."

    Geoff's reply:

    "The real world is not like this."

    I do not understand what I am depicting to which you are referring, and do not feel this comment to be erroneous.
    I think that such 'revolutions' do occur, despite the ongoing gradual progress you describe, only some of which is progress.

    Although apparently good at languages, I have little interest in computing, having other priorities with my time, and regard the 'discipline' as lacking intellectual rigour, this illustrated by computer people's usage of a single word in a sentence meaning different things in each case. I also have found duplicity and illogical processes in the thinking of computer people, an example shown on a dialogue interface on a website only an hour ago.

    Although with a background in science and engineering, and a career in the latter just beneath C. Eng. level, I have educational aspirations in other directions, with guitar, piano and song writing as ambitions, and have also put ten years into speaker design work, and do not want yet another discipline to study.

    When I use a knife to cut bread, I do not want to have to study the materials of the blade and handle, and the design structure or development, unless it is of particular special personal interest.

    As a retiree is, I have no availability of access to specific valuable formal education, and one in which I have to rely on the 'hearsay' advice from others on this topic.

    Surely there is somebody whose specialist knowledge is on just this growth area.

    It is however evident to me that computing is going to dominate not only technology, but also our lives.

  4. #314
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

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    If technology gets better and makes streaming music easier, or with greater Fidelity, or any type of improvement, then it will be worth having waited for it. But, if it should get worse, exceedingly complicated with no increase in fidelity, then there is always the old gear to fall back on, we won’t loose the old way of doing it. Much as everyone in our group uses old stereo. If newer tech in audio doesn’t wow us, or is exceedingly expensive, we fall back on the old tech that we know works! I see threads on people refurbishing 40 year old record players, rebuilding equally old speakers, amps, etc. the failures of main stream audio today, cheaply made Surround Sound receivers with 11 channels and tiny little sound bars, doesn’t phase a true audiophile! So I suggest that streaming technology may very well get better in the future, but it can’t get worse, because the gear in use today has set a standard. Hopefully they won’t make any changes that would render present day gear obsolete. But again, I’ve seen dumber things happen.

    In my personal case, I’m not really waiting on streaming to get better, I’m just waiting on me wanting it. At present, I am not moved. It’s seems I have other wants that I deem more important to me personally, a better phono cartridge, a better preamp, I’ve got a few cables that need upgrading. streaming seems world’s away right now. If I get the itch to stream in 5 years, I really don’t think I’ll have missed anything. “Remember how great streaming was back in the old days?”, I don’t see it.

    Russell

  5. #315
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    From me originally:

    "That is also my position Russell, I'm put off taking the plunge because of the myriads of options available, with no clear winner giving me; value for money, ease and flexibility of use with a good interface, and above all, quality of sound.

    Surely a simple and best option can be developed which cuts through."

    Geoff's reply:

    "The real world is not like this."

    I do not understand what I am depicting to which you are referring, and do not feel this comment to be erroneous.
    I think that such 'revolutions' do occur, despite the ongoing gradual progress you describe, only some of which is progress.

    Although apparently good at languages, I have little interest in computing, having other priorities with my time, and regard the 'discipline' as lacking intellectual rigour, this illustrated by computer people's usage of a single word in a sentence meaning different things in each case. I also have found duplicity and illogical processes in the thinking of computer people, an example shown on a dialogue interface on a website only an hour ago.

    Although with a background in science and engineering, and a career in the latter just beneath C. Eng. level, I have educational aspirations in other directions, with guitar, piano and song writing as ambitions, and have also put ten years into speaker design work, and do not want yet another discipline to study.

    When I use a knife to cut bread, I do not want to have to study the materials of the blade and handle, and the design structure or development, unless it is of particular special personal interest.

    As a retiree is, I have no availability of access to specific valuable formal education, and one in which I have to rely on the 'hearsay' advice from others on this topic.

    Surely there is somebody whose specialist knowledge is on just this growth area.

    It is however evident to me that computing is going to dominate not only technology, but also our lives.
    Analogue recording technology has been around for more than a century and I am not aware of any "best option" that has cut through. Consider the turntable, arm, cartridge options: belt vs direct drive; suspended chassis vs non-suspended; moving coil vs moving magnet; linear tracking vs conventional radial. Where is the consensus on the best analogue front end let alone the best analogue system factoring in various stages of amplification and loudspeaker options. Whilst one person may have a strong preference for a particular combination at a given price point, others will have different (subjective) preferences. As with analogue, there will never be a "single best" options because we are not homogenous in our tastes and preferences.

    In a forum like this you will get subjective assessments of the merits of different pieces of kit, both singly and in combination with other pieces of kit (synergy is a big thing in audio). To describe this as hearsay is to do contributors an injustice. In general usage, the term hearsay relates to unsubstantiated claims of what another party said. In legal terms, it is about the admissibility of unverified claims by a witnesses of what another party said. What you describe as hearsay on this forum is first hand experience. Yes it is subjective: it cannot be anything else, but it is evidently not hearsay (unless the posting is reporting another person's claims).

    I can understand your desire to have a simple to use device at a good price. As to sound quality, I cannot know what that is for you. You will need to go out and listen to various options and decide how much you are willing or need to spend to get the SQ you aspire to. However, there are many devices out there which are easy to use and IMHO offer very good sound quality. I have a Chromecast Audio in a good bedroom system. I use it with the Deezer app and once installed it is simply a matter of switching playback to the Chromecast. On the vfm front, I strongly recommend this https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-TV-Live-...ds=WD+TV+Media Not hearsay as I have this unit! It is the audio-visual Swiss Army Knife and will play almost any file, including graphics files. You do not even need to mess around with networking options as you can play files directly from usb drives.

    Frankly, you need to get out and listen to these devices rather than relying on the opinions expressed in this forum. This is true of all hifi purchasing decisions. My main point is, that there are a number of devices available at different price points which offer good sound quality and simplicity of use. Personally, I think it is hard to beat the Rpi options in terms of performance/price ratio. That is why I have spent a little bit of time learning to set them up. Truth is, once set up the interface is extremely user friendly, at least with Volumio, which is what I eventually settled on.

    Geoff

  6. #316
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I have no idea how to do that and I suspect neither does Marco. Never underestimate the ability of people to avoid new technology
    Haha - indeed!

    As you know, I don't even OWN a smartphone. I simply have no need for one, as I only use the Internet at home (where I work from), and have a laptop for that purpose, so the 'app conundrum' mentioned is of no relevance, although I'm sure that if I really wanted to, I could perform the task; it's just that I have no need or desire to.

    I also have no desire to be 'connected' 24/7, and indeed often find it refreshing to be disconnected ('off-grid', as it were), especially when I'm out and about in the real world, and enjoying my surroundings - the polar opposite of most people these days, who are permanently glued to their smartphones, and aren't even aware of theirs!

    However, I only "avoid new technology" if I consider that it's of no real benefit to me, which is why I don't own a smartphone (tablet or kindle), but instead have a smart TV, as that's something I'd actually use (and frequently do), as it's great!

    Therefore, I simply cherry-pick which technological devices to buy into or not, as I'm no sheep, who feels that he must 'follow the herd' and thus invest in the latest new fad, simply to be considered as 'fashionable', or even by some, 'normal'... Long live such 'abnormality', I say!

    However, a superb example of technology at work, at its best, was experienced recently when I had an issue with some of the Sony equipment associated with my home-cinema system, and I phoned up Sony's helpline in London for advice. The girl there simply asked me for the model and serial number of the item in question, and to confirm that it was successfully connected to the Internet, which all of my home-cinema gear is.

    This would then allow her to remotely access it (my TV), from her location, and fix the problem for me! No joke, I was sitting there watching her using the TV's control panel and clicking on things, making the necessary changes, in order to resolve my problem, which she did, in jig time!!

    No more fannying around with manuals or having to mess around yourself at the back of equipment. Now *that* is a great example of technology 'at work', at its best, which I'm extremely grateful for

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #317
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,737
    I'm Martin.

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    I do have a smart phone but it stopped doing 'the internet' a while back for no discernible reason. I had not touched any settings or anything. I simply can't be arsed to piss about with it trying to get it back, or spend hours on the 'phone to 'customer services.' Back in 1990 I could have told you anything you wanted to know about computers and knocked you up a program to do anything, even in machine code if you wanted. But the world moved on and I didn't and I have no real desire to catch up with it.

    I also have a smart tv. I skipped the bit in the set-up guide about connecting to the internet. Why does a tv need to be connected to the internet anyway? Why can't we just have one thing doing one job the way it used to be?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #318
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    I think all of the novafidelity units, also known as cocktail audio outside the UK, are such a device, I don't use mine to stream but it's just a matter of signing up to which ever service you prefer and your away
    Fair enough, I'm not familiar with the units from Novafidelity, or indeed some of the other items that have been mentioned in recent posts. Someone mentioned Naim, and whilst I've no doubt that most of what Naim (or Linn) produce in relation to file-based audio, is excellent, it comes at a price.

    What I'm taking about (and the only reason I got into streaming music in the first place) is a user-friendly solution (in that respect, as easy to use for a layman as a Polaroid camera), which is cost-effective, and in that respect I'm talking no more than £1k, and which sonically, can compete with similar items from high-end manufacturers, and also expensive CDPs.

    Now whilst I acknowledge that my RPI/IQ-Audio/Moode system isn't quite as easy to set up or use, as an audio source, as a Polaroid camera is to operate as a camera, it unquestionably *can* compete sonically with much more expensive devices on the market, and also top-notch CDPs, as the RPI gets about 85% of the way towards sounding as good as my highly modified £4k Sony CDP/DAC, which itself can trounce some more expensive CDPs on the market.

    And that's largely because, in my FBA set up, nasty, cheap, switch-mode PSUs have been removed throughout the chain and replaced with high-quality linear regulated ones, both powering the RPI/IQ Audio DAC, and crucially also my NAS drives, which removes a whole load of noise from the equation, otherwise fatally detrimental to faithful and enjoyable music replay.

    For that reason alone, I wouldn't entertain using some of the equipment suggested, as it'll be fatally hobbled by a crappy SMPS....

    Furthermore, one thing that that's rarely mentioned with file-based audio music streaming, is what happens for the tech non-savvy, when something goes wrong??

    You may have been able to successfully get things working at the beginning (often more due to luck than anything else), but would you be able to fix a problem if (as can often happen), your device(s) simply refuse to work, or crash, often corrupting the whole system? Computers are notoriously temperamental!

    And if you've got no other way of playing music (many folks will have ditched most, if not all, of their physical music media and associated hardware, after embracing FBA), then you're basically fooked until when (or if) you're able to fix it, or get help from someone who can.

    This is especially pertinent if you've gone the route of buying less well-known equipment from solely an on-line source, which may offer no back up other than a user forum, or some such, where you'd have to trawl through threads trying to find something relevant to fixing your problem, and crucially, understanding what to do from the instructions written.

    Different if you've bought gear, through a dealer, from the likes of Naim or Linn, or some other major hi-fi manufacturer with a proper customer support network, where in the event of a problem you'd simply consult them for help.

    Therefore, with an FBA set up, it's not just about getting the initial system set up and running; it's also about maintaining it that way!

    And so there's no way I'd have entertained getting into it, if there wasn't someone that I could turn to quickly for help, if necessary. That's definitely something that the tech non-savvy should consider before going the FBA route....

    Ok, so based on ALL of the above, could someone tell me any music streaming device, currently available on the market, which fulfils all of the following criteria:

    1) Costs no more than £1k (including a partnering DAC), and features the use of fully regulated linear PSUs throughout.

    2) Is as simple to set up and use, for the non-tech savvy, as a Polaroid camera.

    3) Can compete, sonically, with much more expensive items from 'badged' high-end manufacturers.

    4) Is 'schoolboy-easy' simple to fix, for the non-tech savvy, in the event of a problem and/or which is fully supported, in terms of troubleshooting, by the company who produce and/or sell it (and here I'm talking about help only being a phone call away).



    The RPI/IQ Audio DAC, upgraded with a fully regulated linear PSU, does that for me, but ONLY because I have a tech-savvy friend to call upon for help if necessary!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #319
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    im alway wary of spending too much on a technology that can be outdated and unservicable just after you buy it. the rpi in this respect shows most a clean pair of heels. cheap to replace things and if it all goes tits up your losses aint too bad. i couldnt be happier with the battery i use as a psu as well. very quiet.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  10. #320
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I do have a smart phone but it stopped doing 'the internet' a while back for no discernible reason. I had not touched any settings or anything. I simply can't be arsed to piss about with it trying to get it back, or spend hours on the 'phone to 'customer services.'
    Indeed, such is the nature of computers, which let's not forget is precisely what a 'smartphone' is! And the very same thing (refusing to work for no apparent reason) can happen with a file-based audio source, and sometimes it can be a real bollocks to fix.

    I also have a smart tv. I skipped the bit in the set-up guide about connecting to the internet. Why does a tv need to be connected to the internet anyway? Why can't we just have one thing doing one job the way it used to be?
    I should've thought that my experience highlighted with the Sony helpline was more than enough of an answer to that!

    Also, you can no longer think of your smart TV, simply as a TV, because it's no more 'just a TV', than your smartphone is 'simply a phone'....

    What you've essentially got fixed to your lounge wall is a very large-screened computer, providing you with (if set up that way) full access to the Internet (yes I sometimes post here from my TV, lol), all your emails, YouTube, with its myriad of FREE music, films and TV programmes to watch and listen to, which if your TV is connected up to a decent hi-fi system, can sound (and look) superb, especially if it and/or your home-cinema amp upscales the content to 4K.

    And some of the apps are fantastic. I've got one where I can access live classical music performances of the Berliner Philharmoniker, playing in Berlin, and the visuals (on a top-notch 4K TV) and sound quality are stunning!! It's literally as if you are *there*, as part of the audience.

    Why wouldn't I want to have that?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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