Top CD player wanted

[speedracer]

It is only fair that the seller should have right of reply so well done Marko for facilitating that.

It seems to me that the seller is not acknowledging that the CDP could have been damaged in transit and is implying the buyer caused damage because of apparent lack of experience of digital equipment. I know it is very frustrating when things go wrong but actually getting a diagnosis of the fault will lead to a probable cause, and any seller would be daft to send something so valuable without the proper insurance, and if the buyer baulks at this then don't sell it to him.
I sell on ebay myself quite a bit so I know how their system works, and agree with others that ebay almost always side with buyers rather than sellers, I myself have had one dispute as a seller with over 1300 feedback, I did everything I should have, at my cost by the way, explained my case and I won and had those costs added to my refund, so it can be done.
As a seller you have to suck it up, it is one of the risks, but you try to mitigate those risks as much as possible by doing things by the book.

[farflungstar]

Ok let's clean up some of this.

This thread wasn't about the tribulations of eBay - it was originally about finding a good cd player!

Firstly, I don't want to get into a slagging match with anyone. However if calling someone a dickhead for the way they've spoken about me on another platform is odious to the poster then don't post crap about me in the first place. Unfortunately, until I enter the UPS details into PayPal I cannot access the message sent by the seller - id happily copy and paste it here so others can judge if the term dickhead is applicable or not. Im also happy to post messages from eBay but don't feel I should need to.

I have neither commented on PFM (im a member, I think) or left him feedback on eBay, nor have I tracked him down to have a go at him on here - I think that says something about my motives, that aside from judging him for his attitude and words it isn't personal.

This whole thing could have been sorted out wth a bit of understanding from the seller rather than a diatribe of put downs on the PayPal system.

I asked him via eBay for his telephone number for UPS who need a number for delivery - of course I've heard nothing.

So, let's get this straight - I don't care who, what, where or why. I simply want it resolving.

[Marco]

Hi Adrian,

Firstly, I don't want to get into a slagging match with anyone. However if calling someone a dickhead for the way they've spoken about me on another platform is odious to the poster then don't post crap about me in the first place. Unfortunately, until I enter the UPS details into PayPal I cannot access the message sent by the seller - id happily copy and paste it here so others can judge if the term dickhead is applicable or not. Im also happy to post messages from eBay but don't feel I should need to.

You don't need to, of course, and doing so would be entirely at your discretion, but if it's possible to publish the dialogue that took place between Eddie and you, from the point where you made him aware of the issue you had with the CD player, then that would help people judge for themselves who was being the more reasonable.

I appreciate why this thread was originally started, and sincerely sympathise with your predicament, but this is now also about protecting your reputation as a buyer, as much as it is about Eddie protecting his as a seller. Therefore, the more evidence you provide, which you feel supports your case, the better, and that applies to both of you.

It's a sorry mess, no doubt, but hopefully by hosting this discussion in the public domain, it will result in both resolving the matter for you, and also in some valuable lessons being learned by all, for use in future

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

What baffles me is the seeming impossibility of diagnosing, then correcting, the fault, which I understand is an imbalance on one channel. Most stuff of any age can be repaired by a host of capable repairers, many of whom are members of the main forums. I accept that parts like lasers can effectively make CDPs obsolete, but an imbalance, possibly caused by an under-performing component surely doesn't fall into that category.

I find that the likelihood of this fault developing in transit to be a very long shot. It could easily have been a coincidental failure upon switch-on, as has happened to me. I imagine that the seller will, indeed, have the machine looked at after confirming the fault; probably easier in this country than Spain, I guess. The psychology of the brickbats thrown in this affair is easily understood, and doesn't necessarily imply any shortcomings from either party. If it had been acquired by a buyer in this country, things would have been easier to resolve, I feel.

[twotone]

What baffles me is the seeming impossibility of diagnosing, then correcting, the fault, which I understand is an imbalance on one channel. Most stuff of any age can be repaired by a host of capable repairers, many of whom are members of the main forums. I accept that parts like lasers can effectively make CDPs obsolete, but an imbalance, possibly caused by an under-performing component surely doesn't fall into that category.

I find that the likelihood of this fault developing in transit to be a very long shot. It could easily have been a coincidental failure upon switch-on, as has happened to me. I imagine that the seller will, indeed, have the machine looked at after confirming the fault; probably easier in this country than Spain, I guess. The psychology of the brickbats thrown in this affair is easily understood, and doesn't necessarily imply any shortcomings from either party. If it had been acquired by a buyer in this country, things would have been easier to resolve, I feel.

Coincidently I've been in contact with a long established PFM member who sold a top of the line JVC amp a few months ago, reason being the same model amp is on sale in the classified at the minute and I wanted to hear his feedback on the amp anyway it transpired that the guy imported two of the amps from japan and sold one on but his own amp has now developed a similar fault to the CDP in this thread and despite sending the amp to an engineer to try to find the fault the engineer couldn't find any fault with it presumably because it's such a complex amp so the guy was actually thinking about buying the for sale amp cause it's an NOS amp, albeit that the seller has been using it for about two years, and moving his 'faulty' amp on presumably cause he can't get to the bottom of the fault which is at low volume levels one channel is quieter than the other but when the volume rises then both channels are fine.

That sort of fault would drive you mad, I was going to buy the amp and have it repaired until the guy told me about it having been looked at and the engineer couldn't find the fault, presumably he would be able to find the fault eventually but that would likely end up costing more than the amp is worth.

Tony

[Macca]

I've taken faulty amps to engineers who said they couldn't find the fault, and then taken them to others who have found it and fixed it within the hour. Not all EEs are created equal.

[worrasf]

A morality story ....

I sold my Goldbug Mr Brier to Adrian a few months back.
It was the one I bought from DOM at NWA and so was in perfect condition.
I shipped it out to Spain in "bomb-proof" packaging by UPS Express.
On arrival Adrian informed me that there was no stylus tip on the cantilever and the wooden top plate on the headshell had come off and was lying loose inside the box!!
Both stylus and headshell were intact when I shipped (I took photos).
I fully refunded Adrian's money without question and he shipped the damaged Brier back to me.
It's now with DOM for TLC.

The point of my post? Honour.

I know the cartridge was perfect when shipped - I trust the buyer that it arrived faulty. Nobody should have to shell out their hard earned cash for a dud.

Adrian is out of pocket as he had to pay for shipping to the UK.
I am out of pocket as DOM's bill won't be cheap but it's "the right thing to do".

My lesson learned is that I won't ship stuff out of the UK again.

Steve

[paulf-2007]

When I bought my Denon DP80 from Japan the strobe light didn't work. I took it to a chap I know that repairs amps, organs, pa equipment etc, he replaced done parts and hot it working fine line he has with everything I've taken to him, he wasn't phased in the slightest by the Denon and reckons he could build something similar should the unobtanium parts go tits up.

[Mike Reed]

Coincidently I've been in contact with a long established PFM member who sold a top of the line JVC amp a few months ago, reason being the same model amp is on sale in the classified at the minute and I wanted to hear his feedback on the amp anyway it transpired that the guy imported two of the amps from japan and sold one on but his own amp has now developed a similar fault to the CDP in this thread and despite sending the amp to an engineer to try to find the fault the engineer couldn't find any fault with it presumably because it's such a complex amp so the guy was actually thinking about buying the for sale amp cause it's an NOS amp, albeit that the seller has been using it for about two years, and moving his 'faulty' amp on presumably cause he can't get to the bottom of the fault which is at low volume levels one channel is quieter than the other but when the volume rises then both channels are fine.

That sort of fault would drive you mad, I was going to buy the amp and have it repaired until the guy told me about it having been looked at and the engineer couldn't find the fault, presumably he would be able to find the fault eventually but that would likely end up costing more than the amp is worth.

Tony

Well, yes, but that sounds like a pot. and/or balance control fault (guessing here) whereas, unless the CDP had output pot's, I can't see that an imbalance at line level out would be derived from the same cause. Anyway, as posted above, there are electronics engineers and electronics engineers. Incredible true story of the Goldbug Briar cart. (a long time ago, I'd guess); must have been dropped from a great height; an aeroplane, maybe, if air-mail ?

[Marco]

The point of my post? Honour.

I know the cartridge was perfect when shipped - I trust the buyer that it arrived faulty. Nobody should have to shell out their hard earned cash for a dud.

Adrian is out of pocket as he had to pay for shipping to the UK.
I am out of pocket as DOM's bill won't be cheap but it's "the right thing to do".

Nice one, Steve. "The right [honourable] thing to do", in the event of a problem, even if it doesn't result in the best outcome for YOU, is the behaviour we should all be striving for, when buying and selling things from each other.

I see way too much of the opposite [me-first selfishness] in these disputes, and that's fundamentally *not* what the AoS community is about (or for that matter, any other audio community should be about), so well done!

My job is simply to protect and maintain the value of our classifieds section, to the AoS community, by exposing and highlighting any underhand or ungentlemanly behaviour displayed by its participants.

Marco.